A6 Rebooted

[Graham]

Hi Nick,

I found this photo of the junction of Scotland Road and Taliesin Road, taken in 1962. Compare it with the photo of the sweetshop in Foot's book, and you can see it's the right spot. There is no evidence at all of a cinema opposite the shop.

[NickB]

Is there a bus stop on the traffic island? I presume that is where he would have got off.

On the subject of photos, it might be interesting to find one of the 1973 Lincoln By-election. James Justice stood on a 'Hanratty was innocent’ ticket. He garnered 81 votes.

[Graham]

Nick,

there seems to be a whole lot of bus-stops around there....but no cinema.

Re: the bye-election:



The candidates list was rounded off with two minor candidates, Jean Justice and Malcolm Waller. Justice, son of a Belgian diplomat and a London property consultant, was chairman of the A6 Murder Committee. The committee's aim was to prove the innocence of James Hanratty who had been hanged in 1962 for the murder of Michael Gregsten

From Wikipedia.

G

[Spitfire]

Is there a bus stop on the traffic island? I presume that is where he would have got off.

I thought he said he got off near a picture house and went opposite to ask for directions in the sweetshop.

[NickB]

Dick Taverne writes about the By-election in his book.

[Spitfire]

Hi Nick,

I found this photo of the junction of Scotland Road and Taliesin Road, taken in 1962. Compare it with the photo of the sweetshop in Foot's book, and you can see it's the right spot. There is no evidence at all of a cinema opposite the shop.

Are you sure it is the junction of Scotland Road and Taliesin Road?

Looking at a modern map, it seems that there is a Taliesin Street but no Taliesin Road, and that Taliesin Street does not form any junction with the Scotland Road.

The photo looks more like the junction of Scotland Road and Stanley Road.

[Graham]

Are you sure it is the junction of Scotland Road and Taliesin Road?

Looking at a modern map, it seems that there is a Taliesin Street but no Taliesin Road, and that Taliesin Street does not form any junction with the Scotland Road.

The photo looks more like the junction of Scotland Road and Stanley Road.

OK, point taken, I may have mis-read the caption, but it doesn't really matter - the buildings to the left of the photo quite clearly show the sweetshop at 408 Scotland Road. Ain't no picture-house opposite there.

Cheers,

Graham

[Spitfire]

OK, point taken, I may have mis-read the caption, but it doesn't really matter - the buildings to the left of the photo quite clearly show the sweetshop at 408 Scotland Road. Ain't no picture-house opposite there.

Cheers,

Graham

Fair enough, but one cannot see on the photo a lot of the right hand side of Scotland Road (i.e other side of the road to Cowley's shop) which might fairly be described as being opposite it.

I think that if there had been such a picture house both of Woffinden and Foot would have alerted us to its existence in 1961.

It is strange though that if the sweetshop episode is a figment of Hanratty's limited but fevered imagination why he should limit his direction finding exercise to a sweetshop opposite a picture house. While there were at least 29 sweetshops in the Scottie Road, there cannot have been that many picture houses, so a sweetshop opposite a picture house would be a comparatively rare item.

I do not think that Hanratty could have bought or have been given this information by a look-alike who had asked for directions. I just cannot see that anyone would want to get involved to help Hanratty to that extent. Also if there had been a look-alike and Hanratty had been helped to set up the alibi with Mrs Dinwoodie in late August, then surely Hanratty would (1) have better particulars as in which sweetshop he was supposed to have asked for directions and (2) he would have given this info to Acott before being arrested.

So we are left with it being a total stranger who looked similar to Hanratty asking for directions on the Monday, or it being Hanratty asking for directions on the Tuesday.

One might say that the preponderance of evidence is in favour of the event happening on the Monday, but could one totally exclude it being Hanratty's version that he was the person asking for directions and it happened on a Tuesday? I think probably not.

[NickB]

In post 1387, Natalie (where is she by the way?) says she has police notes of an interview with Hanratty on 30-Dec-1961. In these he says “it was a corner shop by traffic lights and gents toilets and ladies toilets” and, if my reading is correct, she suggests the toilets were on that traffic island.

Of course this is after Gillbanks had visited the shop and taken statements from Mrs Dinwoodie, Barbara and Linda in the week beginning 9-Dec-1961.

If Hanratty was directed to Carlton Road in the centre of town what was he being directed to? I cannot find one there. He could not have mis-heard Mrs D say Tarleton Road because she specifically said she did not know of a Tarleton Road, only Tarleton Street.

Also he concludes: “When the woman told me I had to go back into town, I abandoned my intention of going to the road which I think is called Talbot Road.” Talbot Road is one he asked for in the shop, but sounds completely different to Carlton or Tarleton. With what confidence could he arrive at any of these variously named streets expecting to find Apinall the fence?

[Spitfire]

I will answer the points you make regarding Mrs Dinwoodie* specifically another time and will give each some research-ofcourse Julie or another poster might like to do so instead of me and thats fine.

So a couple of specific points about your above point 5

I don't know whether there was or was not a cinema near the bus stop in Scotland Road but will be able to find that out over the next week or so.

I have however a copy of some police notes taken on 30.12.1961 recorded during an interview with Hanratty.

Hanratty's recorded description of the position of the sweet shop and the landmarks nearby are recorded thus :

"says it was a corner shop by traffic lights and gents toilets and ladies toilets.
Mrs Dinwoodie was by the cigarettes in far counter."

Everything underlined in the above statement is accurate.The sweetshop stood on a corner close to traffic lights and opposite both ladies and gents toilets-indeed the remains of that construction can still be seen today.There is no mention of Hanratty referring to any cinema near the sweet shop when he was being questioned by police on 30.12.1962-but we will double check other statements about it he may have made.
*regarding the spelling of Dinwoodie.My apple computer of 2012 re-spells Dinwoodie with a 'y'.....sorry about that I hadn't noticed until Ron pointed it out

I am not sure what notes this person is referring to.

My understanding of the law is that once the police have sufficient evidence to charge someone they should do so and that once charged no further questioning is permissible.

I cannot envisage any circumstances in 1961 in which the police could interview someone they had already charged with murder, and particularly where that person had been committed for trial, as Hanratty was on 5 December 1961.

[Derrick]

I am not sure what notes this person is referring to.

My understanding of the law is that once the police have sufficient evidence to charge someone they should do so and that once charged no further questioning is permissible.

I cannot envisage any circumstances in 1961 in which the police could interview someone they had already charged with murder, and particularly where that person had been committed for trial, as Hanratty was on 5 December 1961.

again an excellent post Spitfire.

During the trial Acott was photographed standing with a number of press reporters. He denied he had spoken to them and said that the photo had been taken with "a magic eye camera". Sherrard accused him of discussing the case and asking the press what they thought of his witnesses. Acott's answer should not be a surprise to anyone here. It was no of course.

He had previously said that he insisted he be locked in a room during the trial so he could not communicate with anyone. Yeah right!

[Victor]

Sherrard accused him of discussing the case and asking the press what they thought of his witnesses. Acott's answer should not be a surprise to anyone here. It was no of course.

Hi Del,

Wasn't he accused of talking to Louise Anderson as well? Something about the gloves she'd seen in Hanratty's case? Evidence that ultimately was prohibited.

KR,
Vic.

[Derrick]

Hi Del,

Wasn't he accused of talking to Louise Anderson as well? Something about the gloves she'd seen in Hanratty's case? Evidence that ultimately was prohibited.

KR,
Vic.

Hi Vic

I believe so. I'll try and find the source.

Del

[Sherlock Houses]

Hi Vic

I believe so. I'll try and find the source.

Del

Once you've found it Derrick pass it to me so I can put some on my chips.

[Sherlock Houses]

Are you sure it is the junction of Scotland Road and Taliesin Road?

Looking at a modern map, it seems that there is a Taliesin Street but no Taliesin Road, and that Taliesin Street does not form any junction with the Scotland Road.

The photo looks more like the junction of Scotland Road and Stanley Road.

You're correct Spitfire, the photo that Graham uploaded [which is similar to the one published in Paul Foot's book] is where Scotland Road forks off to the left into Stanley Road. The traffic island is still there to this day but slightly changed in appearance. The Ladies' and Gent's toilets shown in that 1962 photo were later paved over. The black painted metal structure on the right is the only one of the two which survives to this day..

The photo in Foot's book has been cropped. The full photo can be seen below. The black rectangle in the modern day photo approximates roughly to where David Cowley's sweetshop would have stood.