A6 Rebooted

[Natalie Severn]

Caz,
There is a vast difference between a person with a schizoid personality such as Hitler and a number of his compatriot fascist henchmen had -[Hitler without any doubt ] and actually being "mentally ill".
Alphon was not "mentally ill" the whole of the time.He quite simply appears to have had many traits to suggest he had a schizoid personality.A personality,that when sufficiently stressed, would trigger precisely the sort of behaviour that so alarmed the guests at the Alexandre Ct Hotel,especially Miss Perkins in the next room to him -that these guests insisted the manager called the police as they suspected him to be the A6 gunman.Viz-"talking to himself incessantly" etc [ he was probably hearing and responding to "voices " telling him what to do-"auditory hallucinations"].
A person with a psychoneurotic personality would not be tipped into such a state when stressed but rather could have what is commonly termed a "nervous breakdown"---not the same thing at all---anybody subjected to sufficient stress can have the latter but not everybody would be "hearing voices" or talking gibberish for hours on end in their list of symptoms.The crucial point to understand is that both the psychoneurotic and the schizoid personality can lead reasonably normal lives,provided they are not triggered into mental illness.
But Alphon found the fascist party---a perfect mode of adjustment,he was resilient, which kept him on the right side of sanity for most of his adult life.
I make no apologies for wanting to discuss his suspect status and why he was allowed to go free when the alibi of his mother fell apart.
And I think it a bit much for you to be calling me " monstrous " for doing so.I have seen lots of people on this sight accuse numerous people of being Jack the Ripper with far less to go on than Alphon has given us all,
Best
Norma

[caz]

Methinks you need to reacquaint yourself with the now closed A6 thread. There's a mountain of written material on there which points very strongly to Mr Alphon being the A6 murderer. I don't need to rely on Alphon's confessions that he did it.......Just to be going on with for now.......

Dead ringer for Storie's identi-kit photo. His greased back hair dovetails perfectly with Storie's original description of the murderer's hair. The smell of Brylcreem in the car must have been quite strong.
Original police prime suspect.
His hiding out in the immediate aftermath of the crime at the Alexandra Caught Hotel.
His extremely suspicious behaviour there.
His sleeping rough in the 2 days prior to the crime.
His presence in room 24 of the Vienna Hotel.
His knowledge of the Slough area.
His knowledge of the Kingsbury area (near to where the road-works were).
His knowledge of the Northolt area.
His propensity for violence.
His being a very poor driver.
His resemblance to Michael Clark.
His age at the time of the murder was 30, exactly the age that the gunman was supposed to be.

"Original police prime suspect."

Interesting.

Given the whiff of anti-police bias on this thread, I'd have thought that was good enough to outweigh all other considerations and declare Alphon as innocent as a newborn babe, having narrowly escaped being set up himself by bent coppers. Worked for Colin Stagg, didn't it?

What I can't quite work out is why you would find Alphon guilty beyond reasonable doubt, going by the above list of damning facts, and don your black cap with gleeful enthusiasm, while all those keen to prosecute and punish someone - anyone, apparently - back in 1961, clearly missed a trick.

Or was it perhaps that they were not quite so far steeped in corruption that they could imagine evidence that wasn't really there? They could have done with you as their teacher.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hi Norma,

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I did not mean to describe it as monstrous simply to accuse Alphon of rape and murder on no decent evidence at all. It's the fact that you are doing precisely what you so strongly condemn as monstrous in others - ie those who accused Hanratty, supposedly with a similar lack of evidence. At least Hanratty got his day in court, and was mentally fit to plead his innocence, which he totally ballsed up if he was really in Rhyl.

Alphon may not have been mentally ill 'the whole of the time', but since when did you get to judge when he was and when he wasn't, let alone that he committed rape and murder, then confessed while he was playing with a full deck?

Can you really not see the comparison between how unfairly you think Hanratty was treated by the entire system, and how you seem to think Alphon deserved to be treated?

Love,

Caz
X

[Limehouse]

So, are you saying the the knicker fragment contained a mixture of two different semen deposits?

Did MG & VS actually indulge in sexual intercourse that evening prior to the assailants arrival?

Also, what source of Michael Gregstens DNA was used to compare with the samples found on the knicker sample for identification?

.

Hi BR

According to official reports - the semen desposits on the knickers included some in the crotch area and one deposit that extended for about 5 inches up the back of the knickers.

If -as has been reported - the fragment of cloth from the knickers was the size of four postage stamps - it is perhaps unlikely that the fragment included all of both semen stains.

It is assumed that Gregstern and Stories had sex that night. I have not read any official statement that claifies this but the presence of two semen types seems to suggest they did have intercourse. They may have been using the withdrawal method (to avoid pregnancy) and that may account for the long stain extending up the back of the knickers.

Valerie removed her knickers before being raped. Therefore the semen stain assumed toi be ker rapists must have leaked out when she replace her knickers.

I recently asked about the source of DNA from Gregstern to compare with his deposit on the knickers and it was confirmed by someone that one of his sons provided a sample.

[Limehouse]

Regardless of whether one believes that Alphon was the A6 killer or not - it has to be admitted that he seems to have been a very slippery character indeed and the forces at work that saw Hanratty banged up to await trial (witness testimony - being picked out at an ID parade and having a questionable alibi) did not seem to apply to Alphon.

On 7 September 1961 Mrs Meike Dalal was attacked in her home by a man who called to enquire about renting a room. He fitted Alphon's description and was wearing a shortie raincoat much like one owned by Alphon. During the attack he told Mrs Dalal he was 'the A6 murderer.' He tied her up (rather inexpertly) and left her with serious head injuries. Although he claimed during the attack that he wanted money - he left with virtually nothing (same as the A6 attack).

When Alphon was taken in for questioning for the A6 crime he was placed on an identity parade for both attacks. Mrs Dalal identified him as her attacker but could not bring herself to tap him on the shoulder as she was too scared.

Later - Valerie failed to identify him as her attacker. The police then charged Alphon with the attack on Mrs Dalal. The day after he was charged - he 'suddenly remembered' that he had an alibi - he was collecting almanacs from his regular supplier at the supposed time of the attack. His regular supplier confirmed his alibi and the prosecution asked for the charges to be dropped.

No one else was ever sought for the attack on Mrs Dalal.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Norma,
Alphon may not have been mentally ill 'the whole of the time', but since when did you get to judge when he was and when he wasn't, let alone that he committed rape and murder, then confessed while he was playing with a full deck?

Can you really not see the comparison between how unfairly you think Hanratty was treated by the entire system, and how you seem to think Alphon deserved to be treated?

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Caz,
I see what you are saying,yes.
Alphon ofcourse would have deserved to have been treated properly.If he was found to be guilty he should then have been examined by doctors to assess whether the balance of his mind was disturbed at the time of the crime and if it was decided by doctors that it was then ,in my view,he should have been sent to a hospital for the criminally insane where he would have been detained and could have received treatment .If he was found to have been sane then he should have received the appropriate punishment---which in my view should not have involved execution.
Best
Norma

[RonIpstone]

........There's a mountain of written material on there which points very strongly to Mr Alphon being the A6 murderer. I don't need to rely on Alphon's confessions that he did it.......Just to be going on with for now.......


His presence in room 24 of the Vienna Hotel.

and

Alphon ofcourse would have deserved to have been treated properly.If he was found to be guilty............

I think that I am right in saying that Alphon did not admit to ever being in Room 24 of the Vienna Hotel, so could either of you explain how you would have proved that he had been present in that room?

[Limehouse]

Proof of presence in room 24 does not provide proof of guilt of the A6 crime because - as the Judge himself directed the jury - there is no proof that the cartridges were left there by the gunman himself.

[Natalie Severn]

re "discovery of cartridge cases" day Nudds was sacked!........

Proof of presence in room 24 does not provide proof of guilt of the A6 crime because - as the Judge himself directed the jury - there is no proof that the cartridges were left there by the gunman himself.

-particularly since Mr Edward Kelly of Whetstone Lane, Birkenhead,wrote to Paul Foot to tell him more about "Mr Nudds"---who was apparently a dab hand at "planting incriminating evidence" to get people into trouble! We know for a fact that, another "amazing coincidence"occurred--- in a case described as being laden with" the most astonishing coincidences" ,on the day Mr Nudds was sacked for theft.This was the day those pesky cartridge cases were found in Room 24 of the Vienna Hotel ie 11th September 1961.
Mr Kelly explained to Paul Foot that Nudds,alias Beaumont,was an ex-PD prisoner with him at Parkhurst in 1952.During his "time" he was a notorious "informer",constantly being threatened and attacked and placed under protection by prison authorities.[full story in National press in early 1950"s under title of "Is this the most hated man in Britain?']
Mr Kelly explained to Mr Foot the sequence of a notorious case while he was in Parkhurst when, acting on instructions, Nudds, had "planted two letters" asking for money to be sent in illegally to him by two hospital officers,who as a result were arrested,convicted at the Isle of Wight magistrates court and later sacked.
However,we are expected to believe,again in blind faith, that the cartridge cases just suddenly "appeared" ,the very same day Nudds was sacked , ie 11th September,19 days after the murder and 15 days after an investigation by the police of staff at the Vienna Hotel about Alphon and the A6 murder?

Mr Justice Gorman clearly smelt a rat -if not a plague of them!

[RonIpstone]

-particularly since Mr Edward Kelly of Whetstone Lane, Birkenhead,wrote to Paul Foot to tell him more about "Mr Nudds"---who was apparently a dab hand at "planting incriminating evidence" to get people into trouble! We know for a fact that, another "amazing coincidence"occurred--- in a case described as being laden with" the most astonishing coincidences" ,on the day Mr Nudds was sacked for theft.This was the day those pesky cartridge cases were found in Room 24 of the Vienna Hotel ie 11th September 1961.
Mr Kelly explained to Paul Foot that Nudds,alias Beaumont,was an ex-PD prisoner with him at Parkhurst in 1952.During his "time" he was a notorious "informer",constantly being threatened and attacked and placed under protection by prison authorities.[full story in National press in early 1950"s under title of "Is this the most hated man in Britain?']
Mr Kelly explained to Mr Foot the sequence of a notorious case while he was in Parkhurst when, acting on instructions, Nudds, had "planted two letters" asking for money to be sent in illegally to him by two hospital officers,who as a result were arrested,convicted at the Isle of Wight magistrates court and later sacked.
However,we are expected to believe,again in blind faith, that the cartridge cases just suddenly "appeared" ,the very same day Nudds was sacked , ie 11th September,19 days after the murder and 15 days after an investigation by the police of staff at the Vienna Hotel about Alphon and the A6 murder?

Am I to take it from the foregoing that you would not to seek to prove that Alphon had ever been in Room 24 in your hypothetical prosecution of him?

[Natalie Severn]

Am I to take it from the foregoing that you would not to seek to prove that Alphon had ever been in Room 24 in your hypothetical prosecution of him?

That would depend on which of the three statements by Mr Nudds the prosecution chose to believe in that scenario.

[jimarilyn]

Caz,
And I think it a bit much for you to be calling me " monstrous " for doing so.I have seen lots of people on this sight accuse numerous people of being Jack the Ripper with far less to go on than Alphon has given us all,
Best
Norma

Precisely, Norma. Well said.
It appears that hypocrisy and double standards are alive and well on these boards.

[jimarilyn]

On 7 September 1961 Mrs Meike Dalal was attacked in her home by a man who called to enquire about renting a room. He fitted Alphon's description and was wearing a shortie raincoat much like one owned by Alphon. During the attack he told Mrs Dalal he was 'the A6 murderer.' He tied her up (rather inexpertly) and left her with serious head injuries. Although he claimed during the attack that he wanted money - he left with virtually nothing (same as the A6 attack).

When Alphon was taken in for questioning for the A6 crime he was placed on an identity parade for both attacks. Mrs Dalal identified him as her attacker but could not bring herself to tap him on the shoulder as she was too scared.

Later - Valerie failed to identify him as her attacker. The police then charged Alphon with the attack on Mrs Dalal. The day after he was charged - he 'suddenly remembered' that he had an alibi - he was collecting almanacs from his regular supplier at the supposed time of the attack. His regular supplier confirmed his alibi and the prosecution asked for the charges to be dropped.

No one else was ever sought for the attack on Mrs Dalal.

Excellent post Julie. The violent attack on Mrs Dalal bears all the hallmarks of the the assault in the Morris Minor. The bungled attempt at binding her hands, the token demand for money, the forceful blows on the head (the A6 murderer was considering hitting Miss Storie over the head before he shot her) and the intended sexual assault.

This incident in Mrs Dalal's home must have lasted several minutes. In the early afternoon of a summer's day, in good light. She must have had a very good view of her assailant. Unlike the momentary glimpse Valerie Storie had of the A6 gunman in poor light. As you say a very frightened Mrs Dalal identified Alphon as her attacker. It could not have been Hanratty as he was in Ireland on September 7th, besides which Mrs Dalal said he looked nothing like Hanratty.

Just as with Valerie Storie, Det-Sgt Jock Mackle visited Mrs Dalal in hospital in order to compile an identikit of her attacker. I wonder what it looked like. I don't suppose it will ever see the light of day.

[Black Rabbit]

Hi BR

It is assumed that Gregstern and Stories had sex that night. I have not read any official statement that claifies this but the presence of two semen types seems to suggest they did have intercourse. They may have been using the withdrawal method (to avoid pregnancy) and that may account for the long stain extending up the back of the knickers.

I recently asked about the source of DNA from Gregstern to compare with his deposit on the knickers and it was confirmed by someone that one of his sons provided a sample.

Assumption is a very dangerous thing. Has it ever been established whether MG & VS actually DID have intercourse that evening? Did VS confirm as much?

Also it there an actual (official) reference regarding the source of the DNA used to compare with MG's so it can be checked?

[jimarilyn]

It's an even greater pity that Hanratty's last brief went on record as saying Alphon was not the murderer. You'll have to live with that.

I'd rather live with the missus thanks.