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  • Don't forget that Avondale Crescent was close to Redbridge Tube Station, and even in 1961 parking close to a tube station would have been at a premium, espeically during morning and evening peak periods.

    I can remember going to London with my dad, maybe around 1962-63, and the old man was going nuts trying to find somewhere to park on or close to the Edgware Road in the vicinity of Maida Vale if I remember correctly. In those days, the centre of Birmingham (where we lived) was just as bad for parking, prior to the construction of multi-storey car-parks (which never really eased the situation).

    So I don't think that the presence of a Moggie on Avondale Crescent would have caused much concern or attracted much notice, especially during the evening rush-hour. Mr Medwar must have memorised the reg. number from an earlier news story on TV or radio.

    Graham
    We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

    Comment


    • The contemporary news report beside the photo I linked to said “where it was parked all day”. This must have been what residents were telling the police and reporters at the time.

      Comment


      • Edward Blackhall said he was able to identify the Morris Minor by "three red Scotch Tape Strips on the back bumper and a torn green label on the back window" - Paul Foot book p39.

        I appreciate that the attached b & w photo of the Morris Minor seems to have been taken in relatively poor lighting conditions but even so it's very difficult to discern any sign of strips or torn label. I've even had my magnifying glass out.
        The registration plate number would have been a far more reliable identifier.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Sherlock Houses; 07-18-2014, 12:10 PM.
        *************************************
        "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

        "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

        Comment


        • "It's disappeared now John but not to worry, I'll easily remember that Morris Minor should I ever see it again."

          "How's that Eddie ?"

          "Didn't you notice those red strips on the bumper and that torn green label on the rear window ?"

          "Nah, I wasn't paying that much attention to tell you the truth. Too busy concentrating on my driving. Didn't you get the registration number ?

          "Nah, I was too busy looking at the green label and red strips."
          *************************************
          "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

          "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

          Comment


          • In any case, the Appeal says the red strips were common.

            There was discussion on the old thread wondering where the two bullets fired in the car ended up. Did they go out of an open window? Did they lose velocity and drop to the floor? etc.

            It says here the two spent bullets “were found embedded in the car’s coachwork”.

            Comment


            • This would also explain the ‘Bullet from floor, Bullet from glove pocket’ inventory items.

              They weren’t unused bullets or mistakenly described cartridge cases lying loose (as variously suggested) but spent bullets embedded in those places.

              Comment


              • A lot would depend, I suppose, on the position of the gunman at the moment Gregsten was in the process of passing the duffel bag over his left shoulder.
                Valerie said that the gunman held the weapon in his right hand. If the gunman was right handed I would tend to think he was positioned directly behind Valerie rather than in the middle of the back seat as he shot Michael near or through the left ear. If Michael had turned half-way to his left at the instant he was shot it would seem more natural for the bullet to have exited towards the middle/right front of the windscreen.
                Last edited by Sherlock Houses; 07-18-2014, 02:55 PM.
                *************************************
                "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

                "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

                Comment


                • What happened to the ignition key ?

                  If it was the gunman who left the car in Avondale Crescent I wonder if he took the ignition key with him. There doesn't seem to be any info regarding this particular matter.

                  It's possible that the key was on a key ring along with other personal keys of Michael Gregsten's.
                  *************************************
                  "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

                  "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

                  Comment


                  • I’ve seen nothing about the key either. It is interesting to ponder what he would have done if a bullet had shattered the windscreen.

                    Going back to Graham’s point about the France letters, I can’t find a published one in the Sunday Times but there is this from 1971:
                    ‘Recently two Sunday Times reporters have been allowed to read Charles France’s letters, written before his suicide. Outside the France family they are the only people who have read all these documents.
                    One reporter believes that they should be accepted at their face value - France committed suicide because of the shame he brought his family by introducing a ‘monster’ like Hanratty into the household.
                    The other believes the letters are the expression of a man trying to protect his beloved family from the stigma of his own guilt - that he was, in fact, involved in the murder either with Hanratty or, more horrifically, with Alphon.’


                    I take this to mean that the actual content of the letters is shame at introducing Hanratty to the France household, but they can be interpreted to mean more. No specific ‘smoking gun’.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sherlock Houses View Post

                      It's possible that the key was on a key ring along with other personal keys of Michael Gregsten's.
                      Two strange and apparently little known incidents concerning Michael Gregsten's widow, Janet, occurred between September 7th and December 7th 1961.

                      On September 7th her flat was broken into and her husband's blue portable radio was stolen. It's not clear if she was at home or out shopping when this happened. Janet told a relative that she was living in fear. The radio was later recovered and a 20 year old man was charged with receiving it

                      A day or two after the Committal Hearings at Ampthill ended the Road Research Laboratory at Langley was broken into by thieves and a safe stolen. The safe was found abandoned nearby, 250 had been stolen from it but an envelope was left untouched. This envelope was marked Mrs Gregsten and contained 28 [clearly indicated] which had been collected for her by fellow employees of her husband. Slightly intriguing and open to some speculation.
                      Last edited by Sherlock Houses; 07-20-2014, 10:14 AM.
                      *************************************
                      "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

                      "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

                      Comment


                      • Hi,
                        Obviously compassionate thieves, no other sinister reason is needed..
                        Regards Richard,

                        Comment


                        • As for the flat, the Gregstens address had been included in some newspaper reports. A burglar may well have deduced (or read) that they were elsewhere with family members at such a time. They did move in with Bill Ewer and his wife, but don’t know when.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                            Hi,
                            Obviously compassionate thieves, no other sinister reason is needed..
                            Regards Richard,
                            Must be if you say so.
                            *************************************
                            "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

                            "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                              A burglar may well have deduced (or read) that they were elsewhere with family members at such a time.
                              One report stated that she was at home writing letters to sympathisers when the robbery took place, another report stated that she was out shopping when the radio was stolen from her kitchen. Take your pick.
                              *************************************
                              "A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

                              "Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

                              Comment


                              • Janet Gregsten at home - presumably the flat she shared with Mike.

                                G
                                Attached Files
                                We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                                Comment

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