The Rhyl Alibi

[Hatchett]

That is true Babybird. But I am not too sure that I would go along with the idea that the witnesses in Rhyl were self motivated. Remembering specific details about conbersations that took place some time ago can be prone to inaccurraces. If the witnesses are wrong I would be more inclined to believe that they were the result of human frailty rather than deliberate misconception.

Take care.

[babybird67]

That is true Babybird. But I am not too sure that I would go along with the idea that the witnesses in Rhyl were self motivated. Remembering specific details about conbersations that took place some time ago can be prone to inaccurraces. If the witnesses are wrong I would be more inclined to believe that they were the result of human frailty rather than deliberate misconception.

Take care.

HI Hatchett

yes i would agree...i don't think there was deliberate dishonesty involved in their identifications, at least not in all of the cases (not sure about Evans). But memory is constructive...people sometimes fill in gaps and think they are recalling actual events.

The conversation i am referring to, where Evans was talking to the landlady, happened in Court, Hatchett, so i am not referring to a long-forgotten conversation. She was advised by the Judge not to talk to other witnesses, yet she and Evans were seen in conversation; when asked what they were talking about she denied it had anything to do with the times she had seen Hanratty, but apparently it had been overheard and it had. (Sorry i can't recall where i have picked up this information from...if anyone can shed any further light on it, i'd be grateful...have i got it wrong?)

take care also

Jen x

[Victor]

The conversation i am referring to, where Evans was talking to the landlady, happened in Court, Hatchett, so i am not referring to a long-forgotten conversation. She was advised by the Judge not to talk to other witnesses, yet she and Evans were seen in conversation; when asked what they were talking about she denied it had anything to do with the times she had seen Hanratty, but apparently it had been overheard and it had.

Hi all,

Grace Jones, the Ingledene Landlady, had given evidence and during the lunch break was seen talking to Terry Evans by a juror, apparently about identifying Hanratty, but she told the judge they'd only discussed lunch and this was interpretted as a lie, so undermined her credibility.

Also Hanratty sent postcards (I believe) from Ireland to Louise Anderson and his parents so has some history of keeping in touch.

I also recollect Alexei Sayle relaying that his father had told him he stayed in the exact room that Hanratty alleges to have stayed in at Ingledene, hence undermining the alibi, although that may be his father exaggerating his role.

KR,
Vic.

[Graham]

Hi All,

I'm still not 100% convinced that an old-fashioned 'telephone telegram' necessarily advised the recipient of its place of origin. The odd thing about Hanratty's 'Liverpool Telegram' to Dixie France is that the France family had a telephone at their flat. I'd go so far as to say that the 'Liverpool Telegram' was JH's attempt to establish his whereabouts, viz-a-viz an alibi.

Regarding the Rhyl Witnesses as a body, I think that the opportunity for the citizens of a small, boring, more-dead-than-alive North Wales seaside town to feel themselves involved in a massive national news-story proved irresistable, at least to some of them. JH's defence-team commented that at least one of the men behind the counter of the left-luggage office at Liverpool's Lime Street Station seemed keen to 'be in on the act'; no reason to suppose that the good people of Rhyl were any different. JH had been to Rhyl before, there is no way of knowing how many people he met and spoke to during that visit, so it's very possible that at least a few of them 'thought' they had encountered him at the crucial time when in fact they were 'remembering' details of a previous visit.

I think even Paul Foot began to have a few doubts about the veracity of the Rhyl Alibi.

Cheers,

Graham

[NickB]

I also recollect Alexei Sayle relaying that his father had told him he stayed in the exact room that Hanratty alleges to have stayed in at Ingledene, hence undermining the alibi, although that may be his father exaggerating his role.

Whoever it was gave evidence:
"... the records which revealed only one single room in which James Hanratty could have stayed (room 4, occupied on 21, 22 and 23 August by a witness called in rebuttal) ..."

[Victor]

I'd go so far as to say that the 'Liverpool Telegram' was JH's attempt to establish his whereabouts, viz-a-viz an alibi.

Hi Graham,

It reeks of a deliberate attempt to provide a smidgen of tangible evidence, at least to me. It's just way too covenient, although the one thing that couldn't be manipulated, the actual date and time of dispatch, renders it worthless.

KR,
Vic.