a6 murder

[Graham]

oops, sorry guys, had a blonde moment there.

did the cops get any other reports of anyone behaving oddly in a hotel, or was there only Alphon?

Hi Larue,

Better a blonde moment than a senior one, which I get all the bloody time these days...

Acott put out a plea to all hoteliers, land-ladies, etc., to report if they had any guest acting suspiciously, or who hasn't, quote, 'stirred out' for a few days. As far as I'm aware (and I only have Foot and Woffinden to go on), the manager of the Alexandra was the only response they got.

Also, Alphon was prepared to leave the Alexandra without paying his bill, something he admitted to doing quite frequently, and had to get the money from his ma.

Cheers,

Graham

[larue]

there are those who might say it's grey not blonde...


in all da hotels in all da woild, it had to be da one Alphon wuz in?


another of Sherrards sagging co-incidences eh chaps?

'night all

[Graham]

there are those who might say it's grey not blonde...


in all da hotels in all da woild, it had to be da one Alphon wuz in?


another of Sherrards sagging co-incidences eh chaps?

'night all

Hi Larue,

Well, maybe, but if the manager of the Alexandra hadn't contacted the police about his guest Mr F Durrant, aka Peter Alphon, maybe the world would never have heard of him, and he'd have just carried on sponging off his mom, playing the dogs, and flogging his almanacs.

Cheers,

Graham

[reg1965]

Evidence for his excursion? One dead body and Miss Storie violated.

You're having a laugh Steve! I asked you to produced evidence\witnesses to support your claim that Hanratty didn't travel to Liverpool on the Tuesday (22nd August 1961). The fact that Michael Gregsten was murdered and Valerie Storie critically wounded does not constitute solid evidence.
We all know that Hanratty changed his alibi at the trial. This alone possibly did for him a fatal blow.
This does not mean that the Rhyl alibi was false, as Foot as shown. Over a dozen people came forward, not for publicity (as Leonard Miller shamefully suggests) but to provide vital information in a capital case. Would you if in the same situation come forward? A lot of people probably wouldn't, mainly through a sense of not wanting to get involved, as most probably happened at the time of the trial. What does that tell you about the good people of Rhyl who did and did not have to!!!!?
Mary Lanz the landlady of the Old Station Inn at Taplow said that Alphon was in the bar at the same time as MG/VS that night.
MG/VS would park up in any old place in the area for a 'bit of privacy' aka nookie. Disturbed that night and probably previous nights (by whatever) they drove to the cornfield at Dorney Reach, which again was probably not the first choice but surely somewhere they had been before.
The next thing we know is that MK is dead and VS left for dead, found by a farm labourer and John Kerr.
His written discription taken from VS at the scene goes missing and wallop a whole chain of coincidences later JH is swinging from the end of a rope.
No evidence to put JH at scene of crime is found together with VS's famous 'the image of this man is fading from me' statement.
The mileage of the car now proves the other eyewitness statements invalid, even after Paul Foot had proved that even if the car had been in the Redbridge area that morning the witnesses were wrong!
What does that leave us with?
DNA
Broken vial of trouser wash mixed with VS/JH garments. Selective cutting of VS garment to elict proof of JH guilt. Hankerchief handled by at least cleaner and the person who put it under the seat (likely to be Charles France...who prob had one of JH's hankies)
The whole sorry mess will not be untangled until the public are allowed to fully scrutinise the entire A6 back catalogue of artefacts, especially John Kerrs original notes.
Reg1965

[Graham]

Hi Reg,

No, Steve is not having a laugh.

It's late, I have to get up early in the morning, so I'll just limit my reply to your post to the Rhyl alibi. The facts, as established by two police inquiries and one on behalf of Hanratty's defence team showed that none of the so-called sightings of Hanratty in Rhyl at the critical time could be proved. That is solid fact. Neither Foot nor Woffinden nor anyone else supporting Hanratty's Rhyl alibi has shown otherwise. If you know different, please post the evidence!!! There is not one jot of solid, concrete evidence to show that Hanratty was in Rhyl at the critical time. Not one - not a single one - of the Rhyl so-called witness's evidence could be verified. Their evidence was at best heresay, at worst invention.

And as far as wanting publicity or to 'get in on the act' of a major murder trial is concerned, even Woffinden was prepared to accept that one of the attendants at the Liverpool left-luggage office wanted to do just that.

Cheers,

Graham

[reg1965]

I find it difficult to imagine that the cleaner pout the cartridegs in the hanky as I think there were several boxes of them.

The bus cleaner said that he carried the gun in one hand (by it's serrated edge) and the bullets wrapped up in the hanky. Whichever way you look at it, the cleaner must have handled the hanky and not just by an odd corner. He must have picked it up, probably into the palm of his hand and placed the bullets (cases and all) into it and the folded it up and carried it off.
Why no DNA and if DNA is so smart why isn't the cleaner being charged with the A6 murder.
Also from a post by Steve.
He wasn't keeping a beady eye on someone else...a couple of loud vehicles are disticntly heard going by (possibly other buses) and he looked in that direction when the noise is heard.
Reg1965

[reg1965]

Hi Reg,

No, Steve is not having a laugh.

It's late, I have to get up early in the morning, so I'll just limit my reply to your post to the Rhyl alibi. The facts, as established by two police inquiries and one on behalf of Hanratty's defence team showed that none of the so-called sightings of Hanratty in Rhyl at the critical time could be proved. That is solid fact. Neither Foot nor Woffinden nor anyone else supporting Hanratty's Rhyl alibi has shown otherwise. If you know different, please post the evidence!!! There is not one jot of solid, concrete evidence to show that Hanratty was in Rhyl at the critical time. Not one - not a single one - of the Rhyl so-called witness's evidence could be verified. Their evidence was at best heresay, at worst invention.

And as far as wanting publicity or to 'get in on the act' of a major murder trial is concerned, even Woffinden was prepared to accept that one of the attendants at the Liverpool left-luggage office wanted to do just that.

Cheers,

Graham

Graham
Sorry Graham, but I challanged Steve to provide concrete proof that Hanratty was at Dorney Reach at around the time that VS states that the pair were hijacked.
No forensic evidence exists to place JH at the scene of the crime.
The handling of the concrete evidence such as clothing is open to exteme conjecture and is practically useless for DNA analysis today. In fact, apparently, only small fragments exist.
We all know that the defence team were reluctant to follow up the Rhyl alibi but that is a failing of Sherrard.
As far as the official investigations into the Rhyl alibi are concerned none of the initial witnesses were invited to allow solicitors or any other independent witness to be present to record the interviews given to either Hawser or Nimmo.
It still doesn't wash with me though that you and Steve can still say that the lack of a Rhyl alibi AT THE TIME (if that is what you want to call it) is outweighed by the lack of any other conctrete evidence AT THE TIME! And that this was enough to drop a man 10 feet into a pit with a rope around his neck!
Reg1965

[reg1965]

Prosecution Witnesses

Apart from the fact that there was no forensic evidence to go on, identification testimony was the only plank that the prosecution could truly rely on (and VS was the only one that Acott was interested in apparently), there were other witnesses that the prosecution brought forward to drive nails into that plank.
Roy Langdale. Habitual crook who got a plea bargain for testifying! He made up a story that JH was his regular recreation buddy on remand and that JH had confessed the A6 murder to him!!!
Louise Anderson. Fence and receiver of stolen goods who was hitherto on extremely good terms with JH, but turned when faced with the possibility of going down for her crimes. She took JH in and fenced loads of screwings for him.
Charles France. Took his own life after the sentence was handed down. Not difficult to fathom the reason behind that! He most likely set JH up (forwarding postcards to Scotland Yard and mentioning that the back seat of a bus would be a good place to hide tat screwings) and hid the gun on the bus and arranged for the cartidges to be found a few later at the vienna hotel. Room 24 had only been occupied once since JH (an Indian gentleman). I have heard of filthy hotels but only cleaning a room once every 3 weeks or so is beyond the pale.
Nudds. Say no more about this wretched character, and his accomplice Florence Snell. Habitual liar and scum bag. Would probably shop his granny for the price of a pint.
This bunch add up to a real polished cross section of society if I dont mind saying so.
Also VS's testimony today would be taken with a very large pinch of salt.
I do not mean Valerie Storie any harm and am indeed very sorry for what happened that night, but justice must be SEEN to be done, and I am afraid that in this case, like so many others (most notably and most recently Barry George, before aquittal) it hasn't.
Reg1965

[larue]

Hi Larue,

Well, maybe, but if the manager of the Alexandra hadn't contacted the police about his guest Mr F Durrant, aka Peter Alphon, maybe the world would never have heard of him, and he'd have just carried on sponging off his mom, playing the dogs, and flogging his almanacs.

Cheers,

Graham

hi Graham

exactly! and the police would have been deprived of their first prime suspect. must have been a quiet period for british hotels, only one person to report. i'm sure there must have been other candidates for the guests [paying or otherwise] acting strangely award, like those who have been on the sauce, or those who have snuck a young lady into their room, but then, this practice may be normal for british hotels

[Steve]

Graham
I challanged Steve to provide concrete proof that Hanratty was at Dorney Reach at around the time that VS states that the pair were hijacked.

Reg

You are correct, there is no forensic evidence to place Hanratty in the Morris Minor at the cornfield. There was no forensic evidence, as far as we are aware, to place anyone in the Morris Minor at the cornfield or during its journey towards Bedford. If you read back through previous postings you will see that most people who believe that Hanratty was guilty also believe that he should not have been convicted on the evidence given at the trial, must less hanged for the crime.

However, that does not detract from the fact that he was found guilty by the jury, and that his appeal was turned down, and further more that the Home Secretary refused a reprieve. All of these people had access to the facts of the crime known at the time. Only one further piece of solid evidence has emerged since then; the DNA. Despite the best efforts of Justice, Fox, Foot, Woffinden and all the others no irrefutable evidence has been found to show that Hanratty could not possibly have been in the Morris Minor.

It has been said in recent postings that lack of alibi is not proof of guilt, and that is of course very true. However, even Hanratty himself failed to give a convincing alibi, none has been found since, and the passage of time has made it unlikely that anyone other than Hanratty was the gunman.

Kind regards,
Steve

[Steve]

hi Graham

exactly! and the police would have been deprived of their first prime suspect. must have been a quiet period for british hotels, only one person to report. i'm sure there must have been other candidates for the guests [paying or otherwise] acting strangely award, like those who have been on the sauce, or those who have snuck a young lady into their room, but then, this practice may be normal for british hotels

Hi Larue

I think it's true to say that hotels are overall very different today to how they were in the 1960s. Guests leaving without paying the bill must have been a problem for them, and nowadays they prevent that by taking a run of your credit card at check-in. Back then for an unmarried couple to stay in a hotel would have been discouraged. Even so, I'm sure the police would have been called to hotel premises frequently to sort out problem guests, as you say.

Alphon's behaviour at the time was strange rather than against the law, and he was reported to the police because of his behaviour and also because of the public appeal at the time for hotels to watch out for guests behaving strangely.

Kind regards,
Steve

[larue]

Back then for an unmarried couple to stay in a hotel would have been discouraged.

hehehehe and there's me thinking that mr and mrs smith kept the brighton hotel industry afloat all by themselves!!!!

seems strange to me, that after police appeals for information, only pla and jh featured in enquiries. i cannot recall any other candidates for the gallows. is my memroy failing, or is this another blond gene making it's presence felt???

[Steve]

Isn't it MR & MR Smith keeping Brighton's hotels in business?

There were quite a few other suspects questioned at the time of the murder but the police discounted each of them. It was only Alphon who was considered a prime suspect, and then of course Hanratty became the prime suspect.

I suppose it's also MRS & MRS Smith in Brighton too.

[Limehouse]

Could one of you excellently informed chaps refresh my memory? When Hanratty booked into the bed and breakfast with the green bath, shouldn't he have signed a guest book? Did he sign in under a false name that could be traced back or did the landlady fail to book him in?

[Steve]

Hello Limehouse

There was no signature in the guest book. If Hanratty stayed at Ingledene he wasn't asked to sign the book. (There were more than one books.)

One could safely hazard a guess that not all cash-paying guests were recorded so that the cash could be pocketed and not declared to the taxman!

Kind regards,
Steve