a6 murder

[jimarilyn]

Hi Steve,

Alas, all any of us can hope to be on this forum is an armchair detective. We can sift through the available evidence/information, study it (as best we can) and give our opinions/interpretations of that information. Personally I would love to have access to the entire transcript of the A6 murder trial instead of just snippets of it which are contained in the half dozen or so books written about the subject.

As was mentioned (in the previous, lost A6 forum) one of the most baffling aspects about the whole case was why would anyone leave a murder weapon (and 5 boxes of ammunition) under the back seat of a London bus where they would be open to discovery in next to no time ? Why not throw the Enfield revolver in the Thames or bury it or try and destroy it ? I can think of only one reason why it would be left in such a vulnerable location and that would be to incriminate a chosen patsy. The same applies to the very suspicious discovery of two cartridge cases (from the murder weapon) in room 24 of the Vienna Hotel on 11th September 1961, almost 3 full weeks after James Hanratty occupied that room. The murder was committed approximately 18 hours after Hanratty vacated his room in the Vienna Hotel. Baffling or what ?

Cheers

[Steve]

As was mentioned (in the previous, lost A6 forum) one of the most baffling aspects about the whole case was why would anyone leave a murder weapon (and 5 boxes of ammunition) under the back seat of a London bus where they would be open to discovery in next to no time ? Why not throw the Enfield revolver in the Thames or bury it or try and destroy it ? I can think of only one reason why it would be left in such a vulnerable location and that would be to incriminate a chosen patsy. The same applies to the very suspicious discovery of two cartridge cases (from the murder weapon) in room 24 of the Vienna Hotel on 11th September 1961, almost 3 full weeks after James Hanratty occupied that room. The murder was committed approximately 18 hours after Hanratty vacated his room in the Vienna Hotel. Baffling or what ? Cheers

Quite possibly one Charles (Dixie) France knew the answer!

[jimarilyn]

Hi Steve

Charles France. If anyone was an enigma in this case it had to be Charles France. What a tale he could have told had he not committed suicide 3 weeks before Hanratty was executed. Something unbearable I suggest must have been preying on his mind for him to take that irrevocable step and leave behind a distraught and grieving wife and young family. What that something was we may never know. He left behind a series of letters, the contents of which Joe Public is not privy to (at least for another few decades !). I wonder who decides such things.

Charles France met with William Ewer (another big enigma) sometime after the trial was over ( according to Ewer himself ). Ewer as we all know was Janet Gregsten's brother-in-law. He also had an affair with Janet in the aftermath of the murder. I'm sure his wife Valerie mustn't have taken kindly to her husband's infidelity. Ewer also was a business acquaintance of Louise Anderson, they both owned antique shops close to each other in Swiss Cottage. Louise was a very close friend of James Hanratty and a receiver of some of Hanratty's stolen goods (she paid Hanratty quite large sums of money for these items). Ewer spotted Hanratty in early September in Swiss Cottage and decided for himself that the blue eyed Hanratty might just be the suspect the police were looking for in the A6 murder, so he followed him into a shop and then lost track of him. Amazing !

[Steve]

they both owned antique shops close to each other in Swiss Cottage.

Louise Anderson's antique shop was in Soho, quite a distance away from Swiss Cottage, and securely inside today's Congestion Charge Zone!

[jimarilyn]

Hi Steve.

I apologise for this innocent mistake, I was misinformed. I'm not very familiar with London districts. Just out of curiosity how far is Soho from Swiss Cottage roughly ?

Cheers

[Steve]

Text from a posting on on the old thread ....

Some commentators on the Hanratty case have been surprised that Dixie France knew where to find Bill Ewer when he went to Ewer’s shop to apologise for the death of Michael Gregsten.

The truth was probably that Dixie was well aware of Bill Ewer’s shop, if not Ewer himself, long before the murder. The France family home was half a mile away from Ewer’s shop, so it was one of their local shops. Even if they didn’t buy anything they would have known about it and probably knew the shop’s owner by sight.

What is surprising is this:

□ London villain James Hanratty stays the night at a hotel he hadn’t intended staying at and as a result goes to the wrong railway station the following morning
□ Finding himself on a train heading for Bristol, Cardiff, Swansea, etc. he decides to get off near Slough
□ That evening he commits a crime totally out of his normal modus operandi, quite randomly picking a young couple he came across sitting in a Morris Minor in the middle of nowhere

It subsequently turns out that:

□ The murdered man’s brother-in-law is in the same line of business as Hanratty’s friend Louise Anderson, with whom Hanratty occasionally spent the night
□ Another friend of Hanratty with whom he also occasionally spent the night, Charles France, lives 600 yards away from where the murdered man’s brother-in-law has his business

The scale of these coincidences is staggering, and when you think about that, the ‘She Saw Him at The Cleaners’ story doesn’t seem quite so far fetched.

Louise Anderson’s part in this is intriguing. She started out saying that she liked Hanratty and found him easy to talk to. She ended up insisting that he was a monster and had admitted to her that he had killed a man. Almost certainly, 99.9% certain, Louise bought stolen items from Hanratty; she gave him money, allowed him to spend the night at her flat. Hanratty testified to all of this at the trial. There is every indication that their relationship was a positive one; Hanratty even proposed marriage to her. It’s likely that he wasn’t 100% serious, Louise was old enough to be his mother, and for this reason it’s unlikely their relationship was anything other than platonic. If Louise Anderson’s assessment of Hanratty’s character was as negative as it later became there is no doubt that he would not have been allowed to get so close to her. Louise would not have given Hanratty her home address. If Hanratty hadn’t trusted Louise he wouldn’t have left his suitcase with her.

They did business together and they were also friends. So what changed? Louise’s disgust at Hanratty turning out to be a murderer and a rapist? If just that why tell lies, why make up a confession, which was patently untrue. If it had been true she would have told the court about Hanratty’s confession. So it wasn’t that. Was it that Louise needed to distance herself from her association with Hanratty? Very probably. She was never prosecuted for handling stolen goods.

It is also likely that Dixie France and Louise Anderson knew one another. Her shop was just around the corner from The Rehearsal Club, France knew Soho intimately, and if Louise was a fence she would have been known to people like France.

Kind regards,
Steve

[Steve]

Hi Steve.

I apologise for this innocent mistake, I was misinformed. I'm not very familiar with London districts. Just out of curiosity how far is Soho from Swiss Cottage roughly ?

Cheers

Don't worry, just me being picky!

Swiss Cottage is not that far from Louise's shop ... just a short bus ride, or a brisk stroll. (Takes forever in the car!!!)

[Steve]

Louise Anderson's ....

antique shop in Greek Street today (-ish!)

[Steve]

Where Dixie and his family lived ...

... and where Hanratty spent the night from time to time.

[Steve]

I apologise for this innocent mistake, I was misinformed. I'm not very familiar with London districts. Just out of curiosity how far is Soho from Swiss Cottage roughly? Cheers

It's only 4 miles between the two shops, but it feels like more; Louise's shop in Greek Street is truly in Central London, the West End, not far from Piccadilly Circus. Ewer's shop in Swiss Cottage was to the north and outside of Central London.

The shop in Greek Street still stands and still trades whilst Bill's shop in Greek Street does not exist any more!

[jimarilyn]

[QUOTE=Steve;10100]Some commentators on the Hanratty case have been surprised that Dixie France knew where to find Bill Ewer when he went to Ewer’s shop to apologise for the death of Michael Gregsten.


Hi Steve

I wonder why Dixie would apologise for this if Gregsten's death had nothing to do with him ?

PS. I don't remember viewing this text from the old thread. Was it a posting of yours or someone elses ?


Cheers

[jimarilyn]

Quote (from Steve)


"
□ London villain James Hanratty stays the night at a hotel he hadn’t intended staying at and as a result goes to the wrong railway station the following morning
□ Finding himself on a train heading for Bristol, Cardiff, Swansea, etc. he decides to get off near Slough
□ That evening he commits a crime totally out of his normal modus operandi, quite randomly picking a young couple he came across sitting in a Morris Minor in the middle of nowhere "

Hi Steve

You presume an awful lot here, when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Firstly I would hardly call Hanratty a villain, he was very small fry and a petty criminal at most. Villains are your Kray Twins et al.

Secondly there is concrete evidence that puts James Hanratty in Liverpool and Rhyl from the 22nd to 24th of August 1961. Hanratty, on Monday the 21st told the Frances and Ann Pryce that he was going to Liverpool the next day. Witnesses in Liverpool on the afternoon/early evening of Tuesday the 22nd testify to meeting Hanratty. Witnesses in Rhyl that same evening testify to meeting Hanratty. Witnesses in Rhyl testify to seeing Hanratty on Wednesday the 23rd. Hanratty spent part of Thursday the 24th at the funfair in New Brighton and tried to get into Liverpool Stadium that Thursday evening to watch the Howard Winstone vs Aryee Jackson boxing match. He sent a Telegram to the Frances from Liverpool at 8.40pm that evening.


Thirdly, Hanratty (unlike Alphon) did not know the Slough area at all and is understood to have never been there in his life. Alphon was seen in the Station Inn pub on the evening of Tuesday 22nd August (the same pub that Gregsten and Storie were in).

[Limehouse]

Hi all,

I can think of one reason why France might have wanted to conspire to frame Hanratty - apparently, Hanratty had sex with Frances' daughter in the back of a car. In those days, that kind of carry on would have offended a man deeply, even one with murky connections.

However, maybe Hanratty was not framed at all. May be he was hired to separate the couple and things got out of hand. When it ended in murder, those who collaborated to separate the couple (perhaps Ewer, working with France) closed ranks to cover their owen back, framing Hanratty in the process.

Having said that, we only THINK Hanratty was 'quite a nice chap really'. We don't know for suree that he was not guilty of violent crimes that never surfaced. It's unlikely, but possible. As an indication that Hanratty was not always so nice, to help stabilise him after a spell 'inside' Hanratty's father cashed in his pension and started a window cleaning round with his son. he gave up everything to help his son. Hanratty stuck it for a few months, then ran off. Nice way to treat your father.

[Steve]

I don't remember viewing this text from the old thread. Was it a posting of yours or someone elses ?


Cheers

I posted it on the old thread.

[Steve]

Quote (from Steve)


"
□ London villain James Hanratty stays the night at a hotel he hadn’t intended staying at and as a result goes to the wrong railway station the following morning
□ Finding himself on a train heading for Bristol, Cardiff, Swansea, etc. he decides to get off near Slough
□ That evening he commits a crime totally out of his normal modus operandi, quite randomly picking a young couple he came across sitting in a Morris Minor in the middle of nowhere "



Hi Steve

You presume an awful lot here, when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Firstly I would hardly call Hanratty a villain, he was very small fry and a petty criminal at most. Villains are your Kray Twins et al.

Secondly there is concrete evidence that puts James Hanratty in Liverpool and Rhyl from the 22nd to 24th of August 1961. Hanratty, on Monday the 21st told the Frances and Ann Pryce that he was going to Liverpool the next day. Witnesses in Liverpool on the afternoon/early evening of Tuesday the 22nd testify to meeting Hanratty. Witnesses in Rhyl that same evening testify to meeting Hanratty. Witnesses in Rhyl testify to seeing Hanratty on Wednesday the 23rd. Hanratty spent part of Thursday the 24th at the funfair in New Brighton and tried to get into Liverpool Stadium that Thursday evening to watch the Howard Winstone vs Aryee Jackson boxing match. He sent a Telegram to the Frances from Liverpool at 8.40pm that evening.


Thirdly, Hanratty (unlike Alphon) did not know the Slough area at all and is understood to have never been there in his life. Alphon was seen in the Station Inn pub on the evening of Tuesday 22nd August (the same pub that Gregsten and Storie were in).

Morning jimarilyn

I thought ‘villain’ meant criminal or wrongdoer and he certainly was a criminal having spent a fair chunk of his life in prison.

I agree that it can be established that Hanratty was in Liverpool during the week of the murder because of the telegram, I don’t agree that there was concrete evidence for him being in Rhyl that week. Yes, people came forward afterwards and claimed to be certain that they had seen or spoken to Hanratty at that time, and were certain for a particular reason such as having made a trip to the Post Office on a particular date, and knew it was Hanratty because of his hair colour. But there is nothing that 100% places him in Rhyl, such as a signature in the guest book at Ingledene. In all probability his visit to Rhyl took place at a different time.

Yes, Alphon knew the Slough area, did go to the dog stadium from time to time and quite possibly was there on the evening of the murder. There is no evidence that Hanratty had never been to Slough before the murder. He was known to travel around a lot and could easily have been there, perhaps even in a stolen car. Slough is not that far from London, and Hanratty too was known to visit dog racing tracks. But even if that was his first ever visit to the Slough area there is a possibility that he was looking to burgle one of the big houses near Dorney Common. There is no concrete evidence that puts Alphon in the Station Inn on the evening of the murder, just the landlady’s statement much later that she recognised Alphon and had seen in him in the pub.

Kind regards,
Steve