a6 murder

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Vic,



And I have heard that there were rumours that one of these priests broke the rules of the confessional and stated that Hanratty had confessed just prior to his execution.

Graham

That is scurrilous stuff,Graham.So where and when did you "hear" this filth?
By the way,this thread was quite orderly with everyone being perfectly well mannered and pleasant to each other ,until very recently.Its now suddenly reverted to being a nastly personal exchange between opposing camps since you made your "comeback" when you pleaded for us "all to be nice to each other".

[Graham]

That is scurrilous stuff,Graham.So where and when did you "hear" this filth?
By the way,this thread was quite orderly with everyone being perfectly well mannered and pleasant to each other ,until very recently.Its now suddenly reverted to being a nastly personal exchange between opposing camps since you made your "comeback" when you pleaded for us "all to be nice to each other".

Again, please read what I wrote: I said I have heard that there were rumours. No more. I do not make an accusation. In fact, there was something to this effect on this thread a long time ago, and I believe - only believe - that there was a newspaper article concerning this. Yes, I agree that it is scurrilous, and I sincerely hope untrue.

With regard to your comment about this thread, the main reason I left a while back was the attitude of a certain poster - you know who I mean. It is this same poster who once again has made me see red with his quite unnecessary rudeness to both myself and another poster. I should also add that this poster once saw fit to apologise to me via PM for his comments and attitude, and I accepted his apology with good grace.

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Norma,

Valerie is more likely to mean that the matter was settled years ago for her, justice was done and that she's put the past behind her and took no interest in whatever developments occur - she didn't comment for years, so was unlikely to then.

KR,
Vic.

Valerie has had to carry the physical scars as well as the emotional scars of that outrageous attack from the tender age of twenty three. We always have to be mindful of that .
I agree,she probably is more likely to mean that,
Norma

[Natalie Severn]

Yes, I agree that it is scurrilous, and I sincerely hope untrue.

I hope its untrue too because apart from anything else it would reveal that priest to be a total disgrace to his calling and a priest whose word cannot be trusted.
Graham---I think it best if I leave you to sort out the other matter.But maybe we can all make an extra effort to avoid being personal----and I include myself in that.

[Graham]

I hope its untrue too because apart from anything else it would reveal that priest to be a total disgrace to his calling and a priest whose word cannot be trusted.
Graham---I think it best if I leave you to sort out the other matter.But maybe we can all make an extra effort to avoid being personal----and I include myself in that.

Hi Norma,

1] If I can find the article I'll post it. I would very doubt if there is any truth at all in it, but I know I saw something to this effect.

2] I quite agree.

Graham

[Black Rabbit]

... maybe a couple of priests whose job it is to forgive everyone including murderers.

KR,
Vic.

I think that perhaps God may have a thing or two to say about whose place it is to forgive sinners.

[NickB]

five words uttered from a man on an identity parade with the same or similar Cockney accent to the gunman is totally insufficient

If you looked at someone for 6 hours, you would recognise them again in an instant.

Regarding the priests, there are rumours on this thread boths ways - that they said he confessed and that they said he didn't confess. I think both are equally unlikely.

[jimarilyn]

It doesn"t matter Vic.Six hours or six years---five words uttered from a man on an identity parade with the same or similar Cockney accent to the gunman is totally insufficient to hear the nuances,the rhythms,the cadences and subtleties of idiomatic speech.

Exactly.

[jimarilyn]

If you looked at someone for 6 hours, you would recognise them again in an instant.

But she only had a fleeting glimpse of Alphon in the car.

[NickB]

It was supposed to be an analogy.

[Victor]

But she only had a fleeting glimpse of Alphon in the car.

That'd be difficult seeing as Alphon was asleep in the Vienna Hotel at the time.

I fail to see how anyone can describe the evidence against Alphon to be stronger than the evidence against Hanratty, therefore anyone claiming the conviction against Hanratty should be overturned cannot sensibly claim there is a case for Alphon to answer.

KR,
Vic.

[Victor]

I think that perhaps God may have a thing or two to say about whose place it is to forgive sinners.

Hi Black Rabbit,

For those of you who believe in a god, I thought you accepted priests as their mouthpiece on Earth.

KR,
Vic.

[Graham]

Hi Nick,

Regarding the priests, there are rumours on this thread boths ways - that they said he confessed and that they said he didn't confess. I think both are equally unlikely.

I think you're absolutely right. When I get a moment I'll go through my online newspaper cuttings about the A6 and see if I can find the article I remember reading.

This always reminds me of the remark by Clinton Duffy, the former warden of San Quentin Prison, who said that, quote, "there are no guilty men on death row".

Graham

[jimarilyn]

It's strange that this wasn't apparent in his previous incarcerations, and the beatings he received - were they in Brighton and Blackpool?

What beatings were these Victor ?

[Natalie Severn]

If you looked at someone for 6 hours, you would recognise them again in an instant.

Regarding the priests, there are rumours on this thread boths ways - that they said he confessed and that they said he didn't confess. I think both are equally unlikely.

Hi Nick,

On March 17th,Father John Hughes of the Church of the Holy Child Jesus in Bedford,wasso impressed by Hanratty"s denials of guilt that he decided on his own initiative,and contrary to all the practices of his Church, to approach the newspapers.The Sunday Express of March 18th carried the priest"s expressed conviction that JamesHanratty was innocent of the A6 murder.This was prior to any reprieve ever being granted.
After the reprieve had been refused two other priests,Father Hulme from Bedford and Father Keogh,who had met Hanratty in Brixton, told Hanratty"s parent"s after the execution,[and repeated to Fenner Brockway before the House of Commons debate in 1963] that Hanratty far from confessing to the murder,had protested his innocence to the very end.
These priests had been anxious to extract a confession from Hanratty before his execution and before facing "his Master" and they had therefore pressed him in the confessional .
Of his relationship with Father Hulme and Father Keogh he wrote to his parents,on the eve of his execution which was his last letter to them.
"
I was visited by Father Keogh from Brixton he came to give me that extra little bit of courage,he is a fine gentleman,and I am going to see him any hour now........He stayed with me on Tuesday with Father Hulme from 6pm until 10 pm."I shall not see them again until Wed. morning and they will also help me to keep my courage and spirits up, but I would do it on the courage alone that you and Dad have shown so Mum and Dad....until we meet again you will all ways be in my thoughts.So God Bless you all.From your ever loving son Jim."
His last letter though,was for his brother Mick,it was full of practicalities---his last words to him were "keep smiling"---they might easily have been,-----" because you are my sunshine-my only sunshine!"