a6 murder

[NickB]

Hi Ron,

1. The police would have interviewed George Pratt shortly after 11 Sept 1961 when the cartridge cases were found.

I agree this would seem likely, but Woffinden says they interviewed him on 26-Sep and asks how it is possible for Hanratty to have been identified between the morning and the afternoon. But there must have been activity before this and it may well have included previous contact with Pratt.

The 2002 appeal says “it was Mr Leonard who informed the police of the link between the name “J Ryan” and James Hanratty” (point 48) and that Acott/Oxford received information from Leonard on 25-Sep (point 38). So Leonard had been traced before the 26-Sep interview with Pratt.

What is not explained is why the police got Nudds to change his story on the 21 Sept

I don’t know why they were so keen on Alphon, but it is clear that by doing this they knew nothing about any Ryan/Hanratty/MrsGregsten connection.

[jimornot?]

Hi Viv,
If "The Sketch" and "Mail" articles of February 19th 1962, were right, the Murder Squad had some record of the telephone call from Mr Ewer on September 1st which had led to a man called "Ryan", who had sent flowers to his mother,a Mrs Hanratty,in Sycamore Grove,Kingsbury.

hi Norma

thanks for this and the info on Nudds. Given his background I am not sure it safe to give weight to any of his stories

re the Ewer connection, I think he denied this later and the Sketch writer admitted he'd made it up

all the best

Viv

[jimornot?]

Hi Viv,



Agreed.




I don't think it has ever been explained in detail so below is my attempt to piece things together.

1. Soon after the 7-Sep car crash Mr Pratt of 72 Wood Lane receives a letter from the Irish car hire firm. He informs them no-one by the name of Ryan lives there.

2. The car hire firm refer the matter to the Irish police who discover the car licence had been fraudulently obtained using a false name and address. They make enquiries at hotels about a James Ryan of Wood Lane, Kingsbury, London NW.

3. The Irish police discover that someone of that description shared a Cork hotel room with Gerrard Leonard. In answer to questions about Ryan’s real name, Leonard tells them about the postcards he wrote on Ryan’s behalf.

4. On 25-Sep Acott/Oxford discuss the matter with the Irish police and decide the postcard Leonard wrote to Hanratty’s mother is the most promising lead.

5.On 26-Sep (morning) Acott/Oxford visit Mr Pratt who confirms that no-one called Ryan lives at 72 Wood Lane.

6. On 26-Sep (afternoon) Acott/Oxford visit Hanratty’s parents. Mrs Hanratty confirms that the postcard was from her son.

hi Nick

thanks a lot for this it is much clearer to me than it was before.

Is it me? If he got Mr Leonard to write the cards home after the A6 murder it seems a very odd thing to do for a man on the run from a murder to involve someone else in writing postcards home and ultimately drawing attention to himself that way. Do we know if he got others to write cards for him in the past?

Intrigued

cheers, atb

viv

[jimornot?]

Hi Nick,.........................As to your theory as to how the Ryan/Hanratty connection was made, I agree that the Irish crash has probably something to do with how the police found Hanratty. I would say, however, that:

1. The police would have interviewed George Pratt shortly after 11 Sept 1961 when the cartridge cases were found.

2. At the time of Pratt's interview he knew (probably) neither of Ryan nor the fact that he had also hired a car in Ireland and also given Pratt's address.

3. At some time subsequent to the first interview he receives the communication from the car hire firm in the Republic, which he passes on to the police.

4. From then the police are able to trace Hanratty from the various postcards etc.

..............................

Hi Ron

I'm prob missing something here, why would the police have interviewed Mr Pratt before he had been written to by the Insurance company?

atb

viv

[RonIpstone]

Hi Ron

I'm prob missing something here, why would the police have interviewed Mr Pratt before he had been written to by the Insurance company?

atb

viv

Hello Viv

J Ryan, or Jim Hanratty as we now know, had given Pratt's address of 72 Wood Lane, Kingsbury when he registered at the Vienna.

The Vienna's register indicated that only one person, the Indian Mr Rapur, had stayed in Room 24 since the murder and it transpired that he had not slept in the single bed next to which stood the chair where the cartridge cases were found. So J Ryan as the last Caucasian to occupy Room 24 and the last person to have slept in the single bed therein should have been the prime suspect. The police would have wanted to interview J Ryan of 72 Wood Lane at the earliest possible moment, however their inquiries would have revealed that the occupant of that address was George Platt.

Woffinden at page 101 of paperback edition (beginning of Chapter 8) writes as if Acott/Oxford embarked on their quest to find Ryan on the morning of 26 September, yet as NickB points out the evidence at trial (see para 38 of Court of Appeal judgement) the 'Ryan writing to Mrs Hanratty' connection had been made by 25 September.

The sequence is therefore:

1. Pratt interviewed shortly after 11 Sept.

2. Pratt states he knows nothing of J Ryan; but

3. Either at the first interview or sometime after, Pratt informs the police that he has received the communication from the car hire company (also called Ryan);

4. Irish police asked to investigate whether they can obtain information as to whom Ryan is;

5. Acott gets the information that Ryan is likely to be Jim Hanratty on or about 25 September.

It should be remembered that when Hanratty got Leonard to write his postcards the cartridge cases had not been found at the Vienna and Hanratty must have felt safe using the alias 'Ryan' and writing postcards to his mum.

Ron

[NickB]

It should be remembered that when Hanratty got Leonard to write his postcards the cartridge cases had not been found at the Vienna and Hanratty must have felt safe using the alias 'Ryan' and writing postcards to his mum.

I think this is an important point.

Hanratty went around Ireland using the same name and address that he had used at the Vienna. He gave it in writing at:
A) Hotel registers
B) The car rental company
C) Car licence registration
D) The car accident

Had he known about the cartridge cases this would have been foolish. Even so he might have got away with it, but D) triggered an investigation by the other driver’s insurance company and/or the car rental company.

Also I think it is worth bearing in mind that at the trial Hanratty admitted that he was in the bed that night next to where the cartidge cases were found. Nudds evidence regarding Hanratty's stay was agreed to by the defence.

However at an Alphon trial the person who would be relied upon to try and ruin his alibi and place him in that bed is Nudds. I don't know why Alphonites are so mean to him!

[RonIpstone]

Hello Nick,

I agree that it is likely that the crash was an important event which facilitated the finding of the connection between Ryan and Hanratty.

What is difficult to find out from either Woffinden or Foot is what the nature of the communication which was sent to George Pratt regarding the crash/car hire and the date he received it. Foot, who had spoken to Pratt in 1970, says that when the police visited Pratt he told them that he had just had a bill from a car hire firm in Dublin.

Whereas Woffinden (Chapter 8) is more effusive and says that Acott and Oxford visited Pratt on 26 September, Pratt told them he did not know Ryan but had an unopened letter addressed to a Mr Ryan which Acott proceeded to open and found it contained paperwork relating to Hanratty’s car rental. Woffinden does not say whether it related to a crash or not.

The crash occurred on Thursday 7 September and the cartridge cases were discovered and the discovery reported to the police on Monday 11 September. If the letter to Ryan at 72 Wood Lane had related to the crash then it is possible, or even quite likely, that Pratt had not received any mail addressed to Ryan when first interviewed by the police. This may have led Acott to deduce that he would not be able to trace Ryan, little would he have known of the extensive use by Hanratty of his Ryan soubriquet.

Ron

[Natalie Severn]

I agree with you here Ron.It is difficult even to know to what extent Mr Pratt knew Mr and Mrs Hanratty who lived only a few hundred yards away and who Pratt admits he knew "a little".

[Natalie Severn]

hi Norma

thanks for this and the info on Nudds. Given his background I am not sure it safe to give weight to any of his stories

re the Ewer connection, I think he denied this later and the Sketch writer admitted he'd made it up

all the best

Viv

No viv, Ewer did not deny that he himself called the police etc over the sighting of Hanratty .
The following is taken from the "true" statement by Ewer to Sunday Times,May 1971 re Hanratty sighting by Ewer in early September 1961 ie a week or so after the A6 murder:
extract from Point 1]"........- in early September 1961 I noticed a young man at the counter of the coffee shop only yards from my shop in Swiss Cottage arcade etc ..... He was young,smartly dressed and had quite unusually staring eyes"---[he then disappeared into either the photographer"s shop or the florist etc etc ].
Regarding France.Perhaps France had "arranged" a "scare off" incident with the gunman himself , for Ewer, who was his neighbour and a colleague "in the antiques trade" which France "fenced for" if you recall.Perhaps France took fright at the resultant' fall out" from" their little plan to scare off Valerie" when that plan went so horrifically wrong ?
France killed himself over it.But before he got to that point when he feared the whole story would come out. Ok,but somewhere along the way, he determined to throw the blame on Hanratty ? Why? Did he give Ewer the gun to give to Hanratty? Did he give Hanratty the gun himself and the amunition to leave for Alphon, to pick up on 22nd August, when they were both at the Vienna Hotel on the same day as the A6 ?
The gunman wore gloves and left no fingerprints or hair or fibres anywhere,
and that doesn"t sound like Hanratty to me.Alphon got a whole stash of cash for something he did[£5,000]---and it wasn"t just for making some of his "threatening" phone calls to people.

[jimornot?]

No viv, Ewer did not deny that he himself called the police etc over the sighting of Hanratty .
The following is taken from the "true" statement by Ewer to Sunday Times,May 1971 re Hanratty sighting by Ewer in early September 1961 ie a week or so after the A6 murder:
extract from Point 1]"........- in early September 1961 I noticed a young man at the counter of the coffee shop only yards from my shop in Swiss Cottage arcade etc ..... He was young,smartly dressed and had quite unusually staring eyes"---[he then disappeared into either the photographer"s shop or the florist etc etc ].
Regarding France.Perhaps France had "arranged" a "scare off" incident with the gunman himself , for Ewer, who was his neighbour and a colleague "in the antiques trade" which France "fenced for" if you recall.Perhaps France took fright at the resultant' fall out" from" their little plan to scare off .....................Valerie" when that plan went so horrifically wrong ?
France killed himself over it.But before he got to that point when he feared the whole story would come out. Ok,but somewhere along the way, he determined to throw the blame on Hanratty ? Why? Did he give Ewer the gun to give to Hanratty? Did he give Hanratty the gun himself and the amunition to leave for Alphon, to pick up on 22nd August, when they were both at the Vienna Hotel on the same day as the A6 ?
The gunman wore gloves and left no fingerprints or hair or fibres anywhere,
and that doesn"t sound like Hanratty to me.Alphon got a whole stash of cash for something he did[£5,000]---and it wasn"t just for making some of his "threatening" phone calls to people.

Hi Norma

out posts are crossing on separate threads so we may end up repeating things. Hansard quotes the police as denying any tip off from Ewer, so someone is mistaken, lying, whatever

re France, it's all possible but seems convoluted to not give the gun direct to Hanratty who lodged with him? Also re Alphon and hanratty sharing the same hotel - wasn't alphon referred there from another palce - how would that fit? Why would France fkill himself out of fear the story would come out given that the case was theortically them closed after JH was hanged.

why would Ewer mention France coming in to see him to apologise and draw attention to a connection - they were probably not being watched after all?

also odd that PLA could locate MG & VS in the cornfield when they originally chose another site.

re alphon who would have given him the 5000 which is I admit very suspicious. I don't buy the betting theory and it may have been partly as newspaper payoffs which might explain the size of the 'fee'. did Jean Justice know him then? I know JJ denied giving money and I take that at face value but he (JJ) had a vested interest in denying funding PLA didn't he? I got the impression Ewer mainly sold brollies and dabbled in antiques - seems unlikely then he'd have that dosh around which is an extraordinarily large sum for such a crime (no-one has explained why PLA's fee was so high!)

Ewer denied knowing France but again could be self preservation.

so you pays your money and take your choice it seems.

good old debate

Viv

PS I can't find it - no books at moment -supposed to be working - but I am sure I read Ewer DID deny the story

[Natalie Severn]

Hi viv,
I tried on the other thread to explain that Alphon made threatening calls to numbers of people- not just Bill Ewer.
Personally I dont believe Hanratty knew anything about it.He was the " patsy".
Alphon got the gun ,he said,from Charles France.
I dont accept that Charles France,if he was the one who provided the gun, would have felt no guilt.A man had been murdered,a young woman raped and left for dead ----a horrendous crime ---how would any halway decent person feel if they were the one who provided the gun?
Cheers
Norma

[jimornot?]

Hi viv,
I tried on the other thread to explain that Alphon made threatening calls to numbers of people- not just Bill Ewer.
Personally I dont believe Hanratty knew anything about it.He was the " patsy".
Alphon got the gun ,he said,from Charles France.
I dont accept that Charles France,if he was the one who provided the gun, would have felt no guilt.A man had been murdered,a young woman raped and left for dead ----a horrendous crime ---how would any halway decent person feel if they were the one who provided the gun?
Cheers
Norma

hi Norma

I agree that France would have felt guilty in those circumstances. Something pushed him over the edge for sure. I feel it could also be that he'd been friendly with Hanratty (as had his daughter) and maybe he felt guilty at that after such a crime or even that he'd helped convict him

do you know if there is any tangible link to Alphon and France?

If he was party to a plot, I wonder why France apparently made no refernce to it or say Alphon in his suicide notes. Fear maybe that his family would suffer but surely he could have indicated the 'travesty' of the hanratty trial without much further (direct) implication

all the best

Viv

[Natalie Severn]

Hi viv,

I agree that France would have felt guilty in those circumstances. Something pushed him over the edge for sure. I feel it could also be that he'd been friendly with Hanratty (as had his daughter) and maybe he felt guilty at that after such a crime or even that he'd helped convict him

Yes,it could be that he was depressed about helping to convict a man who had been his friend.France wanted to protect his family from further intrusion by the press,Alphon etc.

do you know if there is any tangible link to Alphon and France?

The only link is the one Alphon gave when he gave the press conference in Paris in 1971.Alphon claimed that Charles "Dixie" France was a mutual friend of himself [Alphon], of the central figure[Ewer] and Hanratty.He claimed he received the gun from France a week before the murder.He said he did a reconnaissance trip to the cornfield with Ewer,and one on his own.The sighting of a man in the weeks prior to the murder ,who looked like Alphon was reported by several witnesses.He claimed he had been at the Slough dog track earlier on that day and that he knew the area well as he had been sent there as a child evacuated during the war.
Best
Norma

[jimornot?]

Hi viv,


Yes,it could be that he was depressed about helping to convict a man who had been his friend.France wanted to protect his family from further intrusion by the press,Alphon etc.



The only link is the one Alphon gave when he gave the press conference in Paris in 1971.Alphon claimed that Charles "Dixie" France was a mutual friend of himself [Alphon], of the central figure[Ewer] and Hanratty.He claimed he received the gun from France a week before the murder.He said he did a reconnaissance trip to the cornfield with Ewer,and one on his own.The sighting of a man in the weeks prior to the murder ,who looked like Alphon was reported by several witnesses.He claimed he had been at the Slough dog track earlier on that day and that he knew the area well as he had been sent there as a child evacuated during the war.
Best
Norma

thanks Norma

As reported by other posters - far more up to date on the detail than me - one problem with Alphon is that his accounts apparently have discrepancies or omissions/ deviations from the facts and so undermine what he says.

I know we've done this before but if Alphon was the party why didn't valerie recognise him, why is there no tangible evidence to link him?

I don't buy the cornfield recce anyway - why bother? Likewise how would he know they'd be there - they went somewhere else first. And notwithstanding this, if he knew the area well, why nee to recce it at all?

I mentioned before the known unreliability of 'casual' witness statements. I know you'll ask for the references but I'll not easily get them but I do remember reading a psychological study (or 3!) that showed how under controlled conditions, memories of events varied hugely and were influenced by other factors too

it is not the study I read but hopefully you'll find this link interesting

http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm

in fairness, wikipedia entry (just another example) gives credence to the thought that even principal players can get it wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_identification

just something else to discuss?

all the best

Viv

[jimarilyn]

re alphon* who would have given him the 5000 which is I admit very suspicious.* I don't buy the betting theory and it may have been partly as newspaper payoffs which might explain the size of the 'fee'.* did Jean Justice know him then?* I know JJ denied giving money and I take that at face value but he (JJ) had a* vested interest in denying funding PLA didn't he?* I got the impression Ewer mainly sold brollies and dabbled in antiques - seems unlikely then he'd have that dosh around which is an extraordinarily large sum for such a crime (no-one has explained why PLA's fee was so high!)

Hi Viv,

Jean Justice first met Alphon about a week before the Bedford trial ended in February 1962. By this time the vast majority of the £7,569 that was paid into Alphon's deposit and current accounts between October '61 and June '62 had already been deposited.

It's very significant I feel, to point out that the unaccounted for £5,000 of this £7,569 sum was not paid into Alphon's account in one go. The impression has been fostered on this thread that £5,000 was paid to him in one lump sum. This is absolutely not so, the money was paid into Alphon's account in instalments gradually over the course of a few months. This smacks to me of blackmail. Hush money.

As for Bill Ewer, Viv, he was not some humble umbrella repairman as has been suggested elsewhere on this thread. He was listed in the London Telephone Directory of 1961 as an Art Dealer. As Norma has already pointed out he had a Philip Wilson Steer painting on the wall of his Swiss Cottage boutique at the time of the A6 murder. [Steer is widely recognised as the foremost British Impressionist painter of his day and his paintings don't sell for coppers]. He was far from strapped for cash and flourished enough financially to be able to open an Antiques Shop in posh Oxford Street by 1966. Three short years later [around the time of the break-up of his 8 year affair with Janet Gregsten] at Sotheby's he outbid everyone else to buy (on behalf of an anonynous person) a Holbein miniature masterpiece for a then world record price of 21 grand. I wonder if that anonymous buyer could have been none other than himself ??

Louise Anderson, an undisputed business acquaintance of Ewer's and in the same line of business as Ewer, paid Hanratty about £600 over a short period of time for ill gotten goods. She was supposedly very short of cash at the time so I wonder if she could have been acting as a middlewoman for Ewer. Fanciful speculation on my part ??? Who knows.