a6 murder

[Limehouse]

I still find it odd that people are trying to pin the A6 on Alphon despite the fact that he was expressly cleared by the Hanratty legal team during the last hearing in the Court of Appeal. That legal team, it will be remembered, was led by not an establishment lackey but by leading civil rights lawyer and trouble maker, Michael Mansfield. That he should have been so satisfied after reviewing all the evidence should be sufficient for those that have only read what Foot and Woffinden have laid before them.

'Trying to pin the A6 on Alphon' is not exactly what people are doing. Rather they are debating the points for and against Alphon/Hanratty.

There are many here who have read far more than just Foot/Woffinden.

[Graham]

In fairness to Ron, there are people who reject Hanratty's guilt, and effectively say that if he didn't do it, then it must have been Alphon because he was the only other high-profile suspect and that he confessed. Unfortunately, Alphon was in a cleft stick of his own making: when anyone else would have run a mile after being officially cleared of any involvement in the A6, he was in cahoots with Jean Justice and making the absolute most of his infamy.

I got to say, though, that it's not impossible to have a sneaking admiration for him - especially his filmed interview in Paris, when he ate the inept reporter for breakfast whilst lolling around on a bed, in total control. As has recently been said, had he wanted to, he could really have made something of himself.

Graham

[Graham]

Alphon's Financial Transactions

Would seem to be (after he'd been cleared of involvement in the A6):

3.10.1961 - he opened a deposit account with initial payment of £750 cash.

Oct - 24.11.1961 - paid in a further £3300 in a series of cash payments.

Oct 1961 - opened a current account.

Oct - Nov 1961 - total of £2050 piad into his current account in cheques and cash.

December 1961 - paid £1800 into his current account (don't know if cheques and/or cash).

Total paid into his accounts: £7569.

Foot thought at least £2500 was from selling his story to the papers. Alphon told Acott that he had won £1000 at the dogs in August (and quickly lost the lot also at the pups). So right from the horse's mouth is confirmation that you could win very big at the dogs in those days, if he's to be believed and I can't see any reason not to. There also seems little doubt that he was paid out-of-court settlements for libel and false arrest.

At his Paris 'press-conference' Alphon said that he'd been paid £5000 for the A6 murder; then he changed his mind shortly afterwards and in a newspaper interview said that the £5000 was for 'something totally different', and claimed he could prove it.

All that moolah and he ended up in a bed-sit.....

Graham

[jimarilyn]

Very true,Graham . But Foot also met Alphon and had long discussions with him too and came to very similar conclusions---especially about his cold ,emotionless reactions. His "sang froid" can be seen in his interview with the French press.He comes out with stuff that most people would find stomach churning but Alphon delivers in a rather matter of fact,unfeeling way.I noticed too in one of those "interviews" that he used the East London "f" or "ph" for "th" when he said "All phree" instead of " All Three".
Norma

Well spotted and commented on Norma. I've just watched Alan Hart's full [16 minute plus] interview of Alphon in May 1967, once again. For those who are unfamiliar with it, this revealing interview can be seen in it's entirety here.....

http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/itn-reporting-67-peter-alphon-claims-to-be-a6-murderer/3569086803/?icid=VIDURV01

Graham seems to believe that Alphon ate Hart for breakfast (what was wrong with his usual cornflakes i wonder). In my opinion this is far from the case. As can be seen by studying the video Alphon is hesitant and stuttering at various time throughout the interview and Hart equips himself quite well and is never flustered.

Anyhow don't just take my word for it, judge for yourselves.



PS. Very good to see you back posting on the thread Tony. Your input and insight is invaluable and has been much missed Don't go AWOL again !
It's good to see Viv posting again too.

[Natalie Severn]

I still find it odd that people are trying to pin the A6 on Alphon despite the fact that he was expressly cleared by the Hanratty legal team during the last hearing in the Court of Appeal. That legal team, it will be remembered, was led by not an establishment lackey but by leading civil rights lawyer and trouble maker, Michael Mansfield. That he should have been so satisfied after reviewing all the evidence should be sufficient for those that have only read what Foot and Woffinden have laid before them.

This was Mansfield agreeing " on the evidence before them " ie the 2002 LCN DNA test results that have since been researched by a Washington FBI team of scientists,led by Dr Budowle and found to be unreliable for use in their law courts so they are no longer used there unless qualified specifically by their context and the evidential history and quantity of the exhibits.So, as far as I am concerned,Ron, this means nothing very much at all.
The piece of cloth was cut off from knickers after they had been examined in the same lab as Hanratty"s trousers and intimate specimans .Since Hanratty"s trousers had just previously been excised of his dried seminal fluid, contamination is a very real possibility.We dont know what went on exactly in the Morris Minor between Mike Gregsten and Valerie Storie since the evidence was heard in camera.IF Alphon raped VS,and only removed one of the black nylon gloves to do so [the ones Juliana Galves"s statement said she had seen on top of his case at 11.45 on 23rd August] ,Alphon I am sure, would not have left his semen there [---he would have used a withrawal method for example.
So the DNA case is not so cut and dried as they thought it was in 2002.
How Hanratty"s seminal fluid got there is another matter entirely- as far as I am concerned anyway.
The option chosen by the crown is that Hanratty put it there himself.

[Limehouse]

I wonder how Alphon's parents must have felt about his behaviour? He was an only child who showed so much promise and won a scholarship to a top school. Imagine the pain they must have felt - first at the accusation that he was the A6 killer and secondly by his antics following the accusations. How must they have felt?

[Natalie Severn]

I wonder how Alphon's parents must have felt about his behaviour? He was an only child who showed so much promise and won a scholarship to a top school. Imagine the pain they must have felt - first at the accusation that he was the A6 killer and secondly by his antics following the accusations. How must they have felt?

Well Julie he was molly coddled like mad by his doting mother -how much help to him that was I really dont know.But if she had any insight at all she would have known her son wasn"t quite right surely, and as his mum would have loved him anyway --but not loved his admiration of Hitler and Mein Kampf.

[RonIpstone]

We dont know what went on exactly in the Morris Minor between Mike Gregsten and Valerie Storie since the evidence was heard in camera.

Where on earth have you got that from?

IF Alphon raped VS,and only removed one of the black nylon gloves to do so [the ones Juliana Galves"s statement said she had seen on top of his case at 11.45 on 23rd August] ,Alphon I am sure, would not have left his semen there [---he would have used a withrawal method for example.

So VS must have had sexual intercourse with:

(1) Michael Gregsten;
(2) Peter Alphon (the rapist);
(3) A person unknown who left seminal fluid which indicated that he was a blood group O secretor?

[NickB]

I noticed too in one of those "interviews" that he used the East London "f" or "ph" for "th" when he said "All phree" instead of " All Three".
Norma

It is in the ITN interview that Alphon says 'three' in a strange way. But it sounds to me like 'thwee'.

Indeed throughout the interview he cannot pronounce the letter 'r' properly - making a 'w' sound instead.

[jimornot?]

Pla

hi James

thanks for the link (and the welcome back)

I was trying to find it only earlier this morning.

Alphon is certainly scathing of the police and refers to 'another' trumped up charge. What was the other one(s) I wonder?

He implies that he is behind France's suicide too - I'd not picked that up before. I understand that there were several phone calls initaited by A to France and I can imagine how unsettling that might have been. Apart from deep shame that he had allowed Hanratty into his family, I can't quite fathom why France committed suicide over the case - I have read that he was damning of hanratty in his suicide note(s) but never accused him of the murder.

People must have been in contact with Alphon years later - just fascinated to know more of his later life. He talks of a private income .....?


all the best

Viv

[Graham]

It is in the ITN interview that Alphon says 'three' in a strange way. But it sounds to me like 'thwee'.

Indeed throughout the interview he cannot pronounce the letter 'r' properly - making a 'w' sound instead.

He also says 'der' when he means 'the', and 'dare' when he means 'there'.
He did pronounce 'both' as 'bofe'.

Graham

[jimornot?]

It is in the ITN interview that Alphon says 'three' in a strange way. But it sounds to me like 'thwee'.

Indeed throughout the interview he cannot pronounce the letter 'r' properly - making a 'w' sound instead.

Hi Nick

his speech isn't my concept of how an east london accent would sound to me. Would need to listen again to it but he never says think or fink to compare. I thought he might show how he could put 'a veneer' on his speech but he didn't seem to do so

He seems to have been a shrewd character and a contardiction in terms as a clever cookie

atb

Viv

[Natalie Severn]

So VS must have had sexual intercourse with:

(1) Michael Gregsten;
(2) Peter Alphon (the rapist);
(3) A person unknown who left seminal fluid which indicated that he was a blood group O secretor?

Why so? Just lets suppose that VS and MG had consumated their passion for each other that night.Along comes Mr Gunman,rapes VS but leaves no trace---just as there was no other trace whatever of a gunman in the car.
On 28th December the pathologist receives Hanratty"s clothes and his intimate samples .He scrapes semen from the fly area of Hanratty"s trousers and some flakes fall onto the table in the lab as he is preparing a "wash" of the dried semen to keep in a vial.
Next day [or that same day] He examines the knickers.He
picks up semen from a Group "O" secretor from the knickers .
He then cuts off a piece of the knicker crotch area,puts it in a bag and its stored with other cellophane sealed items in a file for 30 years.
The cloth is then found to have Hanratty"s DNA on it through LCN DNA testing---since proved a contoversial way of testing and unreliable in courts.

Ok---I can hear the indignant screams---"but their was an entire bucketful of Hanratty"s seminal fluid all over the entire knickers!".............really---are you sure about that,Ron [or whoever may scream loudest----]?Or might it not just be helpful to the prosecution to talk of an "abundance" of body fluid such as this----because there was certainly no abundance of anything at all left on that fragment of 40 year old cloth in 2002 ----thats why they had to use a radical new method of testing called low copy number DNA testing ?And its results are now ,eight years later in 2010 considered to be iffy,very iffy.

[RonIpstone]

Val's knickers were in the police lab on 23 August 1961 and then it was detected (1) that the rapist was blood group O secretor (Hanratty and Alphon were both group O) (2) there was seminal fluid in smaller quantities from a blood group AB secretor (presumed to be MG) and (3) vaginal fluid from VS was present.

This happened well before Hanratty came onto the scene as a suspect.

[JamesDean]

Why shouldn't Valerie describe being forced to have sex, if that's what happened? She was not a shy or prudish person. The 'obvious reasons' she didn't describe being forced to have sex in the car were that it never happened.

Graham

Hi Graham and everyone,

Perhaps the most 'obvious reason' is that it was a murder trial and whether she was or wasn't forced to have sex with MG in the car is largely irrelevant. Your posts are enormously interesting and I hope to read many more of them as we continue our search for the truth. I know you think you have found it already but I hope in time that something will come to light to have you doubting again.

Cheers
James