a6 murder

[Steve]

Evening Graham

The identification evidence from Ilford and Redbridge has been thoroughly trashed over the years, quite rightly, because it was based on fleeting glimpses and dubious timings, and was fuelled by the participants’ euphoria of being involved in a high profile criminal case. It is far from certain when the Morris Minor was abandoned in Avondale Crescent, although probably not at the time suggested by the Ilford and Redbridge evidence. I have always doubted Skillett’s evidence, wouldn’t trust Trower as far as I could throw him, and although Blackhall was the most plausible of the trio, his evidence was less than solid.

Regarding the missing mileage, I had the impression that the odometer reading tallied pretty much with the journey from Dorney to Deadmans Hill and Redbridge with a reasonable tolerance, and any distant wanderings to Matlock or wherever could be discounted.

Also, we have to take account of the timing of the murder weapon being found on the bus, which of course puts the abandoning of the Morris Minor into perspective. If the murderer dumped the car, then went and dumped the gun, there was little tolerance for much meandering, let alone sticking up defenceless women in the home counties!

Kind regards
Steve

[Steve]

Avondale Crescent - Recent-ish Photos

Avondale Crescent - Recent-ish Photos

[Steve]

Avondale Crescent ...

... Today (-ish)

[Steve]

Avondale Crescent ....

.... less greenery today, but otherwise little changed since 1961 ...

[Steve]

The view as you

enter Avondale from Redbridge.

[Steve]

The corner of ...

.... Avondale from Redbridge ....

[Steve]

My car is parked where ....

.... some of the identification witnesses would have been standing ....

[jimarilyn]

It really will be interesting if PLA can download his photos. I've always thought that 'the' entrance to the corn-field is quite close to the cottages rather than further down Marsh Lane.

Hi Jimarilyn,

Regarding the time the Morris Minor was found, Bob Woffinden refers to some finds by the CCRC in 1997. The Commission says that 'probably' the car was not left in Avondale Crescent until early evening, when Alan Madwar saw it and reported it to the police. The CCRC refer to a siting of the car in Bedford at 5.25am that morning. There was also a statement to the fact that a local woman routinely parked grey Morris Minor on Avondale Crescent during the day. Finally, there is the mileage recorded on the car and noted by Acott - comparing the car's odometer reading when found it is a lot higher than it should have been, if the routes from the cornfield to Deadman's Hill and from Deadman's Hill to Avondale Crescent are taken into account. This would obviously suggest that the car had been driven around during the day - but to where? I don't think sufficient emphasis was placed upon this 'missing mileage' at the trial, which would tend to weaken the evidence of Trower, Skillett, and Blackhall.

Cheers,

Graham

Hi Graham,

This is yet another puzzling and tantalising aspect to the case. Michael Gregsten kept a meticulous daily log of the mileage used by the Morris Minor. Apparently about 200 miles had been driven in the car between the early evening of August 22nd up until the time it was discovered (6.45pm the next day) in Avondale Crescent. As you point out this would be a lot more than could be expected had the car been driven from Dorney Reach up to Deadman's Hill and then down south to Ilford.

The killer was taking a hell of a chance driving around erratically in daylight hours in what must have been a blood splattered car (surely he must have gotten blood on his clothes and shoes). There were reported sightings of the car in Bedford at 5.25am and also much further north of Bedford. How true those sightings were is another matter however.

These sightings of the car, if true ,would tend to weaken the evidence of Blackhall, Skillett and Trower. However it seems that Edward Blackhall's powers of observation enabled him to identify the car from the 3 strips of red tape on the back bumper. It's a little strange I think that they didn't have the presence of mind to note the registration plate number (if the car was being driven as badly as they made out). I have been in similar circumstances on my travels and have made sure I remembered the licence numbers of dangerously driven cars which have narrowly missed hitting me.

If it was indeed the murder car that was seen in Redbridge around 7am that morning, where did it disappear to for the next 11 or 12 hours ?There must have been a police alert put on that car.

[P.L.A]

Avondale Crescent

Greetings one and all

The Morris Minor was found in almost the exact position that the white van is in in the picture on posting 603 - half on the pavement with it's back towards the apple tree. That is, on the left hand side looking up the road from Redbridge Lane East.

The wooden fence of the corner shop was replaced by a brick wall about two years ago.

Peter

[jimarilyn]

Avondale Crescent, evening of August 23rd 1961

Greetings one and all

The Morris Minor was found in almost the exact position that the white van is in in the picture on posting 603 - half on the pavement with it's back towards the apple tree. That is, on the left hand side looking up the road from Redbridge Lane East.

The wooden fence of the corner shop was replaced by a brick wall about two years ago.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Here's a scanned pic of the scene in Avondale Crescent. Is that an oil spill there and what are the police looking so intently at ? It certainly isn't the rear bumper......

[P.L.A]

Avondale Crescent

Greetings one and all

The apple tree on the left hand pavement in the picture shown on posting 603 is just to the left of the picture shown in posting 610.

Peter

[jimarilyn]

Another view of scene in Avondale Crescent

Badly parked car, it's a wonder the rear offside tyre didn't get a wall puncture. I wonder if somebody else other than the murderer drove the car in those unaccountable 11 or 12 hours.

[jimarilyn]

Judging from how close that tree is to the Morris Minor and the position of the car itself I would say that the driver reversed a couple of yards or so.

[P.L.A]

Was it reversed?

Greetings one and all

Good question about the reversing. I have never been able to make my mind up one way or the other.

When seen sideways on, there is more space between the car and tree than appears from the front on picture - it is quite deceptive. If you visit the scene now, the kerbstones are still the same, so it is easy to see where the car was left. I can't judge whether it was possible to drive straight into that position or not.

One thing that I have always thought is that it is more likely for one of the suspects to have reversed than the other.

Peter

[jimarilyn]

Murder route or not ???

Hi,

This was the route thought to have been taken by Michael Gregsten and then the murderer, but it only accounts for about half of the approximate 200 miles covered by the car on the 22nd/23rd of August 1961. Dr. Keith Simpson, who carried out the post-mortem on Gregsten, estimated that death occurred between 3 and 4 am. On that basis, and if the murder car was in Redbridge just after 7am, it had taken the driver of the car well over 3 hours (probably closer to 4 hours) to cover about 50 miles. Maybe he was in reverse gear.