a6 murder

[john]

So once again after 500 posts earlier-enclosed to refresh your memory what was Blackhall/Skillett/Trower up to. One person not seeing the car and it is clear that it was not going to Avondale Crescent at 700 that morning or if it did are we the suggesting the car drover down Avondale did a circuit of the estate and the came back our again? I do not think so.
The Matthews 1996 report showed that the Avondale at 700 was rubbish and not verified by the local neigbours there-who live there who said in statements which the Police conveniently forgot that there was no Morris Minor there in the morning at all. One lady (I have seen her statement) went out shopping and passed the space where the car wa slater doscovered and send there was nothing there at 11.30 that morning. The Police know that yet did not give that evidence to the defence.

So again I ask what were blackhall/Trower and Skillett up to. Instead of rambling about knickers and DNA a serious research into those 3 might produce interesting facts. ALPHON DID not do the murder. it is a smokescreen. not did William Ewer arrange any murder to shag Janet Gregsten. The murder was arranged but for reasons which I cannot work out yet. That is not written as a get out but there are strange aspects to do with security in this case as you will read later this week. I have finally managed under FOI Act received all information as to who MI6 had files on. In the next few days you will see the list and may well ask-why. By the way i tested the theory that there is afile on us all. Untrue.....
there is not one on my sister. Regretfully the files will not be made available and any information in them is redacted but at least we know there are file s on some of the seemingly innocous characters in this saga.

The DNA and Ewer and mad man Alphon are just utter smokescreens.

Post 5583.
There were 12 fingerprints taken from the car in Avondale Crescent. We do not know who they belonged to at all. You can bet that if one had been Hanratty's then the world would have known about it.

We do not know or indeed anyone left apart from Miss Storie what Michael Clark looked like. There are discrepancies between Acott and Dr Rennie's descriptions.

We do not know or indeed anyone apart from the POLICE and Henry Parry what Henry Parry, landlord at the Windsor Hotel said in his statement at the time of the investigation. Not made months afterwards That was never give to the defence or his name revealed to them at the time of the trial.
If he had said anything against Hanratty, as I have written before you can bet that would have been used by Swanwick.

What is inarguable by pro or against is that the 1996 review headed by Matthews (I cannot remember his Police rank without looking it up) recommended that there has been strange going on in the case and that the case to go back to the new review body set up.They would not have done that if the case was so watertight in inspection for the prosecution. Matthews and his colleagues, I suspect would have access to all the paperwork etc which no else has ever had, prosecution counsel included!!!

Yes, I know the DNA's will say about that. But at the time in 1996 Matthews and his team were not aware of this and made their recommendations and indeed accepted eventually by the Government of the time for a retrial of the evidence. Thus in coldy and calculatingly looking at the evidence they had in front of them which would have been everything (bar the future DNA results), they decided to recommend what previous investigations had not.

Nimmo and cohorts had never looked at evidence from Avondale Crescent, the evidence of Trower and Blackhall et al ( as in the best traditions of police practice , that was not their brief at the time) and examined it critically which Matthews must have concluded on balance has discrepancies at the very least in their statements compared to the actual evidence he uncovered.

[Limehouse]

[QUOTE=jimarilyn;141114]Hi Norma,

What I find hard to believe [if we are to accept that it was the murder car seen in Redbridge around 7am] is how on earth it took 11 and a half hours before it was discovered, badly parked on Avondale Crescent. This was after all the most sought after car in England on August 23rd. Radio and news bulletins had been issued all day, with a full description of the car and it's registration plate number. It had a blood-stained interior and dented number plate. The school summer holidays were still in full bloom and there must have been lots of inquisitive school children playing in that area. When I was growing up in Liverpool in the early to mid sixties me and my mates would often look at the speedometers of parked-up cars to see how fast they could go (if it was 100, 120, 140 mph, etc ). i can imagine that to have been the case in London too.

Good grief James! You had cars that went that fast in Liverpool in the 60s? In the London suburb of Chinhford where I grew up, wqe got excited if the speedo went up to 60mph!

[Limehouse]

So once again after 500 posts earlier-enclosed to refresh your memory what was Blackhall/Skillett/Trower up to. One person not seeing the car and it is clear that it was not going to Avondale Crescent at 700 that morning or if it did are we the suggesting the car drover down Avondale did a circuit of the estate and the came back our again? I do not think so.
The Matthews 1996 report showed that the Avondale at 700 was rubbish and not verified by the local neigbours there-who live there who said in statements which the Police conveniently forgot that there was no Morris Minor there in the morning at all. One lady (I have seen her statement) went out shopping and passed the space where the car wa slater doscovered and send there was nothing there at 11.30 that morning. The Police know that yet did not give that evidence to the defence.

So again I ask what were blackhall/Trower and Skillett up to. Instead of rambling about knickers and DNA a serious research into those 3 might produce interesting facts. ALPHON DID not do the murder. it is a smokescreen. not did William Ewer arrange any murder to shag Janet Gregsten. The murder was arranged but for reasons which I cannot work out yet. That is not written as a get out but there are strange aspects to do with security in this case as you will read later this week. I have finally managed under FOI Act received all information as to who MI6 had files on. In the next few days you will see the list and may well ask-why. By the way i tested the theory that there is afile on us all. Untrue.....
there is not one on my sister. Regretfully the files will not be made available and any information in them is redacted but at least we know there are file s on some of the seemingly innocous characters in this saga.

The DNA and Ewer and mad man Alphon are just utter smokescreens.

Post 5583.
There were 12 fingerprints taken from the car in Avondale Crescent. We do not know who they belonged to at all. You can bet that if one had been Hanratty's then the world would have known about it.

We do not know or indeed anyone left apart from Miss Storie what Michael Clark looked like. There are discrepancies between Acott and Dr Rennie's descriptions.

We do not know or indeed anyone apart from the POLICE and Henry Parry what Henry Parry, landlord at the Windsor Hotel said in his statement at the time of the investigation. Not made months afterwards That was never give to the defence or his name revealed to them at the time of the trial.
If he had said anything against Hanratty, as I have written before you can bet that would have been used by Swanwick.

What is inarguable by pro or against is that the 1996 review headed by Matthews (I cannot remember his Police rank without looking it up) recommended that there has been strange going on in the case and that the case to go back to the new review body set up.They would not have done that if the case was so watertight in inspection for the prosecution. Matthews and his colleagues, I suspect would have access to all the paperwork etc which no else has ever had, prosecution counsel included!!!

Yes, I know the DNA's will say about that. But at the time in 1996 Matthews and his team were not aware of this and made their recommendations and indeed accepted eventually by the Government of the time for a retrial of the evidence. Thus in coldy and calculatingly looking at the evidence they had in front of them which would have been everything (bar the future DNA results), they decided to recommend what previous investigations had not.

Nimmo and cohorts had never looked at evidence from Avondale Crescent, the evidence of Trower and Blackhall et al ( as in the best traditions of police practice , that was not their brief at the time) and examined it critically which Matthews must have concluded on balance has discrepancies at the very least in their statements compared to the actual evidence he uncovered.

Fascinating post John. You raise some crucial points.

When you say the murder was arranged, do you mean it was definitely arranged as a MURDER or just an attack? If so, why did they select such an incompetent assassin?

Re M16 files - could it be that Alphon had a file? I've often wondered about him due to his so-called intelligence, the school he won a scholarship to (lots of recruitment from that type of school in those days, I believe) and also his father's connection to the police - was he really just a clerk?

And what about Gregsten? Can't see him as a useful recruit as he was too highly strung - but di he work on things other than road research?

Can't wait to see what the next few days reveal!

Julie

[Limehouse]

Hi Ron,

I never seriously considered Alphon as a suspect anyway, and agree with your statement regarding when he was seen at the Vienna.

I could go along with the car being seen in Bedford by the milkman who also gave some accurate details of the vehicle's number (whether at the time or when the car's registration was common knowledge I can't say), but not the Birstall sighting nor other reported sightings in Derby and, I think, Matlock. Maybe JH was in a state of confusion and shock after what he'd done, and drove around aimlessly for a while - maybe stopping somewhere to clean the inside of the car?
I'd still like to know why you call the Bedford jury dim and stupid - my old man was born in Bedford and he certainly wasn't either!

Graham

Fair point Graham, but why did he leave the blood? I mean, if he had time enough to clean the seats, carpet etc, it would have been sensible to clean the blood up as well because it was so risky driving the car with blood all over the inside. If he risked being seen cleaning the interior, it was worthwhile also cleaning the blood - in fact sarting with that first? In any case, wouldn't forensic testing have picked up any detergents used recently on the seats or carpet if the killer had stopped to wipe the interior of prints? And how come he was able to wipe his own forensic evidence away, but not that of Gregten et al? How did he know where their prints etc were?

It all seems rather odd, the issue of the car. Not only the forensics, but also its true whereabouts immediately after the crimes until it was found in the evening in Redbridge. It doesn't add up.

[Graham]

Hi Julie,

Fair point Graham, but why did he leave the blood?

Good question to which I don't know the answer. Because of the lack of forensics in the car I was only surmising that it might have been cleaned out. But would even the most thorough cleansing remove all evidence of a person's presence in the car? Hanratty would've been smart enough to make a good attempt at wiping away fingerprints, but would he, I wonder, have had the nous to remove fibre, dirt and other bits he may have brought into the car with him? It was obvious to him that the car would be found and would be linked to the A6, so no point in cleaning the blood away; but every point in getting rid of anything that could be linked to him - like fingerprints.

I wonder when, and how, he learned that Valerie was still alive?

Cheers,

Graham

[Graham]

John's post, interesting though it is, reminds me of recent theorising that Ruth Ellis was involved with intelligence organisations, and knew Establishment figures such as John Profumo - long before the Profumo Affair hit the headlines. It's been suggested that she was playing a similar game to Christine Keeler, that is, sleeping with high-ranking members of the British Government at the same time as having it off with gents from the Russian Embassy. All sounds highly unlikely to me, though - but you never know.

Graham

[jimarilyn]

Have you ever been to Deadman's Hill, James? Even today, 50 years after the event and much altered, the area has a certain melancholy about it. I drive up the A6 from time to time, and always stop for a few minutes in the modern lay-by. A few years ago I went on the day after the anniversary of the crime, and was slightly surprised that no-one had laid any flowers down (or at least I didn't see any).

That whole area's got a strange atmosphere - not only the A6 case but claimed Black Magic rituals at the nearby ruined church.

Graham

No I've never been to Deadman's Hill, Graham, the nearest I've been to it was back in the summer of 1977 when I attended a truly memorable Neil Diamond open air concert at Woburn Abbey about 10 or so miles away.

The point you make about the alleged black magic rituals at St. Mary's, Clophill is very interesting.
About 10 months after Hanratty's execution a man toured the village of Clophill, just a mile from Deadman's Hill, pretending to be a local reporter. He went around asking villagers if occult practices had been been known to have occurred there in years gone by. The Daily Mirror (amongst others) printed a newspaper article concerning this in March 1963. Peter Alphon was very much into the occult and black magic and I wonder if this mysterious 'local reporter' could have been him or one of his associates. Who knows, perhaps a case of a murderer revisiting the scene of the crime.....

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Julie,
Regarding John"s post today,I have wondered why Gregsten had become quite so hard up-it made me wonder whether he was being blackmailed and if so why?The man took the pound note from VS and gave her the threepenny bit back saying "You can have that as your wedding present". It was a strange remark,especially in the light of Mike Gregsten having moved out of the marital home and apparently having talked to VS about marrying her.
Best
Norma

[jimarilyn]

Thanks Julie,
Regarding John"s post today,I have wondered why Gregsten had become quite so hard up-it made me wonder whether he was being blackmailed and if so why?The man took the pound note from VS and gave her the threepenny bit back saying "You can have that as your wedding present". It was a strange remark,especially in the light of Mike Gregsten having moved out of the marital home and apparently having talked to VS about marrying her.
Best
Norma

Excellent observation Norma, you have given much food for thought here. After all he was a Research Scientist at the RRL at Langley, as well as being a civil servant. I'd imagine Research Scientists to have been on pretty decent salaries back then, so what caused him to become so hard up ?

regards,
James

[Natalie Severn]

. Peter Alphon was very much into the occult and black magic and I wonder if this mysterious 'local reporter' could have been him or one of his associates. Who knows, perhaps a case of a murderer revisiting the scene of the crime.....

This is getting really interesting.If Alphon was into the occult then that is a deciding factor for me that he had a schizoid personality.His obscure mission, to do with some sort of desire to tackle "immorality" in the world ,his dependency on his mother,his "sensitive" nature and semi vagrant lifestyle, lack of a secure job, interest in the Nazi party[Hitler was a paranoid schizophrenic] .All these things add up to exactly the sort of person who if tipped into a psychosis could become a killer of the type the A6 killer was: cold blooded and utterly ruthless.
Add to this Julian Galves statement about his dishevelled,unsettled appearance on the 23rd August with the suitcase full of dirty clothes and a pair of black nylon gloves lying on top of them and you have a pretty clear idea that he had been up to something.
Thing is---and you can look this up under schizophrenic psychosis----he of all people may not have ejaculated[Robert Napper left no semen in his violent rapes---another paranoid schizophrenic who turned into a serial killer]---its rare but it happens.Our killer may have found himself "turned on" by humiliating his poor victims,but whether he could consummate any of this in the normal sense of the word , while tripping or having a psychotic episode is most unlikely.Therefore there would not have been seminal fluid in what took place.
I think Hanratty"s seminal fluid could easily have got there when the trousers were in the same lab as the knickers on 28th December when Hanratty"s seminal fluid was being removed from them.The copious body fluids on the knicker segment may have come from V"S terror resulting in an excess fluid release.

[Graham]

Excellent observation Norma, you have given much food for thought here. After all he was a Research Scientist at the RRL at Langley, as well as being a civil servant. I'd imagine Research Scientists to have been on pretty decent salaries back then, so what caused him to become so hard up ?

regards,
James

MG had a lifetime history of psychological and personality problems - when he was in the RAF he was described as having 'bad social behaviour', and this when he was only about 20. He also left university after failing his degree. I'd be surprised if he was earning top money at the RRL, as I feel he'd be viewed as basically unqualified, a very minor civil servant in government scientific service. Obviously I don't know for certain, but I'd suggest he was more of a senior technician than a fully-fledged research-scientist. I believe Valerie was employed as a laboratory assistant, a notoriously poorly-paid occupation in those days (as I know only too well - my first job was as a lab assistant).

MG, it appeared, had expensive tastes that his salary couldn't support, and according to Woffinden was forever borrowing sums of money from colleagues and friends. He was also a notorious womaniser (Woffinden says 'philanderer - lovely word!) and that's not a cheap hobby either.

Of course, for all we know maybe he was being blackmailed, but neither Valerie nor Janet Gregsten ever alluded to that possibility. If he was being blackmailed, it could only have been because of his roving eye, and Janet was fully aware of that. And who would blackmail him? An angry husband? A jealous woman he'd shoved to one side?

Just thoughts, that's all.

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Mike Gregsten seems then to have brought his money troubles on himself,one way or another as well as trying to live a double life running two relationships at once.
But I wonder if the killer deliberately made them park near a place with links to Black Magic or whether that was just coincidence?

I am attaching an extract from a Daily Telegraph article on Robert Napper,to illustrate what I was trying to say before about his complex assaults and killings:

"A paranoid schizophrenic, Napper also suffered from Aspergers’ syndrome and had received psychiatric counselling for six years as a child. He went on, in his twenties, to carry out dozens of rapes and sex offences near footpaths along the banks of the Thames in south east London - known as the Green Chain Walk.
When police conducted background checks, they found he was a virgin and “sexual inadequate”."

[Graham]

If the attachment's worked, here's a pic of St Mary's Clophill. Much used by druggies until recently, but apparently due for refurbishment according to information on the net.

I've been trying to find out how the name Deadman's Hill originated. You'd think it might be something to do with the location of a gibbett, but can't find anything to support that. Maybe a cemetery in the vicinity? Does anyone know?

Graham

[Limehouse]

I found this site, which mentions the old church and has posts following the article mentioning goings-on there:

http://words.inpurespirit.com/339/clophill-church-deadmans-hill/#idc-cover

One of the posts looked interesting in light of John's recent post:


During the 1970's I visited the old church a few times with friends - especially at night, hoping to see something strange.
A friend who had lived close-by told me that locals believed that the americans working and living at the Chicksands USAF practiced black magic at the old church.
All these years later, I now have learned that Chicksands was a surveillance centre claimed to be for the american government but in reality was to listen-in on important phone calls involving huge business deals that could benefit corporation-owning freemasons so that freemasonry could gain power in the world, through corporate wealth.
Freemasons happen to be heavily into satanism.
What a coincidence.
I doubt however, that satanism was ever practiced at the old church.
It's more likely that the old church was used as a decoy to where satanism really was being practiced - probably within the site of Chicksands. Read more about Clophill Church – Deadman’s Hill? by http://null

Not so sure about the rantings on freemasonary, but the idea that people may have been used to listen in to conversations (M16??) sounds interesting, if fanciful....

[Limehouse]

Every time I read the name Deadman's Hill or hear it, I think of that Jan and Dean record: Deadman's Curve. It's aabout a road in America somewhere (probably out west) and the words include the line:

Deadman's Curve is no place to play
Deadman's Curve, you'd best keep away
Won't come back from Deadman's Curve...