a6 murder

[jimarilyn]

Interesting Valerie Storie newspaper clipping 1977

Came across the following which I thought might be of some interest.

Alphon wasn't averse to having a few Guinesses.

[jimarilyn]

May 1967

Another newspaper clipping. Sunday 14 May 1967.

Attachment went missing. Here it is again

[Graham]

You change your mind/opinion as often as the weather. You never even met the man (Hanratty) yet you come up with all these half baked theories to support your current viewpoint. His family and friends knew him intimately and I'm sure if they thought for just one moment that James was even capable of such a horrible crime they would not have expended all that time and energy over the past few decades in trying to prove his innocence.

Take for instance his Rhyl alibi. All those genuine and honest folk who claim to have seen or spoken to him on the evening of 22nd August and during the course of the next day, were they all Billy Liars like the repulsive and reprehensible William Nudds and Roy Langdale ? I remember reading a post (it may have been one of yours) a few months back stating that Hanratty's activities in Rhyl on the 22nd and 23rd August 1961 were in fact his activities/actions from exactly one month previously the 25th of July. Hanratty's previous trip to Rhyl was indeed on the 25th of July 1961. He couldn't have encountered those witnesses then for obvious (and documented) reasons. For example he couldn't have stayed at Ingledene that July night as he stayed the night at Terry Evans's flat ( he stole a pair of Evans's shoes in fact) and left Rhyl the next day.

Good Afternoon.

Taking your last post point by point:

1] Please tell me one instance in which I have 'changed my mind like the weather' with reference to the A6 Case.

2] No, I never knew JH. I never knew Jack the Ripper or Adolf Hitler, either, but I have the right to speculate upon their personalities, I should hope. I also have the right, the same as anyone else, to speculate as to why JH committed the A6 Crime, and if you disagree with me, then fine. I am perfectly willing to enter into any good-natured discussion but absolutely refuse to get involved in a slanging-match in which personal insults are bandied around.

3] What 'half-baked theories'? Please elucidate.

4] If a son of mine was accused of murder and there was the slightest doubt of his guilt (or even if there wasn't) I'm damn sure I'd react in precisely the same way as the Hanratty family.

5] How do you know that Nudds and Langdale were 'reprehensible'? Did you know them intimately? Or are you merely repeating what you've read, which is what the vast majority of posters to this and every other thread do?

6] Regarding the date of JH's visit(s) to Rhyl, he was certainly there at a time or times other than the week of the murder, and it isn't just MY speculation that he used memories of another visit to point up his 'Rhyl Alibi'.
There is absolutely NO PROOF that he was at Rhyl when he claimed he was. The statements of not one of the witnesses can be verified.

Finally, this thread was always friendly and well-mannered until you came along with your sometimes bluntly-stated insistence that the DNA is wrong. I suggest you modify your attitude a little in the interests of continued good manners and keep personal insults out of it in future.

Graham

[jimarilyn]

The Frances at home February 17th 1961

Here's a cosy family photo of the Frances the day James Hanratty was convicted. The Sunday Pictorial photographed this scene to accompany the family's article "The killer in my House". Less than 4 weeks later Charles France took his own life. Whatever it was that induced him to take this irrevocable step was obviously so great and unbearable that he could not live with it. People don't undertake such a drastic action lightly. And why did he seek out William Ewer after the trial was over to apologise for his brother-in-law's murder ? Did Alphon go much further than was planned ?

[Graham]

Hi Steve.

As ever, your post makes fascinating reading. There is absolutely no doubt about it that Michael Sherrard was spot-on correct when he referred to this case as 'dripping with coincidence', or words to that effect. However, you know as well as I do that well-educated middle-class families in the early 1960's didn't settle problems that way...did they?

It's well-known that Gregsten's superiors at the Road Research Lab were well aware of his indiscretions, and made efforts to warn him off. In those days, things such as extra-marital relationships just weren't indulged in by respectable civil-servants...

One other point that is often overlooked is that Michael Gregsten had mental problems, including depression and a feeling that he ought to be dead, and was referred to the Tavistock Clinic for consultation. Not much was done for him, but he was prescribed tranquilisers. I get the impression that he was rather hyper-active, and much too much for someone like Janet to handle. As she herself admitted when she said that she was unable to give Michael the sex that he required.

I think that if there was a conspiracy, it was more along the lines of "That Janet is far too good for a bounder like Michael Gregsten, and anyway I fancy her something rotten myself".

Yet as Michael Gregsten was actually planning to leave Janet and move into digs on Sunday 27th August, then there really was very little need for anyone to conspire against anyone...he took Janet and the children to Dorset for a caravan holiday, and they returned on Saturday 19th August. Maybe they had used the holiday to try and patch things up, but I doubt it, as he left after a couple days to go and decorate his new flat. He was supposed to be back at work on Monday 21st August, but phoned in to say he wouldn't be back until the Wednesday. On Tuesday 22nd August he was waiting outside the labs to meet Valerie when she finished work...

So there was no conspiracy....so far as we know. Gregsten and Valerie were the victims of a random unplanned attack...weren't they?

Cheers,

Graham

[Steve]

Hi Graham

Thank you for your courteous and well written reply. Yes, you could well be right, the couple were almost certainly the victims of a random and unplanned attack. We know that their attacker was almost certainly James Hanratty.

You have to agree, though, that there are so many strange circumstances and surprising coincidences that even those of us who believe in Hanratty's guilt can speculate about one or two possible other scenarios, yes?

By the way, I still think it was you posting as Theodore and, alluding to one of your earlier posts, I did rattle a certain North London elderly resident's cage again recently.

Kind regards,
Steve

[Graham]

Hi Graham

Thank you for your courteous and well written reply. Yes, you could well be right, the couple were almost certainly the victims of a random and unplanned attack. We know that their attacker was almost certainly James Hanratty.

You have to agree, though, that there are so many strange circumstances and surprising coincidences that even those of us who believe in Hanratty's guilt can speculate about one or two possible other scenarios, yes?

By the way, I still think it was you posting as Theodore and, alluding to one of your earlier posts, I did rattle a certain North London elderly resident's cage again recently.

Kind regards,
Steve

Hi Steve,

Nope, I'm not Theodore. But I do understand the latter part of your last sentence.

The problem with the A6 Case is, and you don't need me to remind you, all the major participants in it are now dead, with perhaps one exception. I for one would love to see Charles France's un-published last writings, which must surely exist somewhere. I would also love to know if Julia Galves is still alive, because I'm sure she could throw some light on what happened at The Vienna. Maybe it's too much to ask for an interview with Michael Hanratty, but even so I'm certain he would be able to throw at least some light on matters relating to the case. Then, of course, Pamela Patt and the woman in the public gallery....

Cheers,

Graham

[Steve]

Hi Graham

Yes, I too would like to see more of France’s letters. I think there are probably many people still living who could provide an insight into the A6 case from a personal perspective. Not just Michael, but the other brothers, Peter and Richard. Also John Kerr, and Dixie’s daughters. I would also be interested to hear Bob Woffinden’s latest views too.

KR
Steve

[Graham]

Hi Graham

Yes, I too would like to see more of France’s letters. I think there are probably many people still living who could provide an insight into the A6 case from a personal perspective. Not just Michael, but the other brothers, Peter and Richard. Also John Kerr, and Dixie’s daughters. I would also be interested to hear Bob Woffinden’s latest views too.

KR
Steve

Hi Steve,

By all accounts France left reams of stuff. He MUST have known vital information about the case. France's other daughter (I can't remember her name) was interviewed for what I think was the last major Hanratty TV documentary (which I have on tape somewhere) and she seemed in absolutely no doubt that Hanratty was guilty; not only that, but that he tore her family apart. Peter and Richard Hanratty - I don't know much about them, as they seem to have faded into the background in comparison to their brother Michael. John Kerr, or at least in the last interview I saw, was certain that Valerie told him that the gunman had 'big, staring eyes and fairish brown hair'. Note: Kerr didn't appear to make any reference to the colour of those eyes. Kerr also said that, at the trial, Hanratty seemed to him to be a very cocky, strutting, self-assured individual.

As to Bob Woffinden, his silence in recent years since the DNA results, is truly astonishing. I'd have thought that he, of all people, would have responded. But apparently not. (Having said that, when I've posted this, I'll Google him).

Cheers,

Graham

[Steve]

(Having said that, when I've posted this, I'll Google him)

There was a email address for him showing on a website a year or so ago. I think he was possibly living in Southsea, but I didn't make a note at the time and I haven't been able to find any more information since.

[Graham]

There was a email address for him showing on a website a year or so ago. I think he was possibly living in Southsea, but I didn't make a note at the time and I haven't been able to find any more information since.

I just Googled Bob Woffinden. He's moved on...Billie Jo Jenkins amongst others. Pink Floyd...although I don't know what that's about. Well, I guess the guy has to make a living.

Cheers,

Graham

[Steve]

So there was no conspiracy....so far as we know. Gregsten and Valerie were the victims of a random unplanned attack...weren't they?

Cheers,

Graham

Hi Graham

It makes you think, though. Gregsten and Bill Ewer were near-neighbours in the 1950's, and Jeanie May Gregsten and Hilda Oulet continued to be neighbours of Ewer during and well after the A6 murder period.

Short distances separate the various locations, including the umbrella shop and Dixie's home. Louise was in a similar line of business to Ewer, and Ewer would almost certainly have recognised the Morris Minor. There were not as many cars on the road in those days, even in London, the registration number would probably have been known to Ewer.

As I say, it makes you think .... !

KR
Steve

[Graham]

Hi Graham

It makes you think, though. Gregsten and Bill Ewer were near-neighbours in the 1950's, and Jeanie May Gregsten and Hilda Oulet continued to be neighbours of Ewer during and well after the A6 murder period.

Short distances separate the various locations, including the umbrella shop and Dixie's home. Louise was in a similar line of business to Ewer, and Ewer would almost certainly have recognised the Morris Minor. There were not as many cars on the road in those days, even in London, the registration number would probably have been known to Ewer.

As I say, it makes you think .... !

KR
Steve

And of course Janet Gregsten and Ewer lived under the same roof for a time, when he was married to her half-sister Valerie.

Graham

[Steve]

It makes you think ....

[larue]

We know that their attacker was almost certainly James Hanratty.

You have to agree, though, that there are so many strange circumstances and surprising coincidences that even those of us who believe in Hanratty's guilt can speculate about one or two possible other scenarios

interesting comments Steve. i have long thought you were totally convinced of Hanratty's guilt, and yet...