a6 murder

[Graham]

I am surprised to see this 'debate' still going on - after all the case was decided a long time ago - like it or not. I guess that some still feel that there is mileage in it.

Yes, the case was decided long ago, Stewart, but there are still some intriguing aspects of it (apart from the DNA) that some think are worth debating. Unfortunately, the DNA argument has all but taken over this thread, to the great detriment of it, in my opinion. When the thread was first started many moons ago the DNA was debated, of course, but so was the case on a very general basis and the thread was the more interesting for it.

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

I am surprised to see this 'debate' still going on - after all the case was decided a long time ago - like it or not. I guess that some still feel that there is mileage in it.

Well Stewart--ofcourse there is mileage while there is doubt....and the fact that the police case at the time didnt stand up.

I have been keeping up with the Le Grand case though and am with you and Tom on that one!

[Victor]

and the fact that the police case at the time didnt stand up.

Provided "didn't stand up" includes "convinced a jury"!

KR,
Vic.

[Stewart P Evans]

What Do I Know?

Well, then, what do I know? Apart from the fact that an old retired New Scotland Yard detective inspector friend of mine actually worked on the case with Superintendent Acott and I discussed it with him, again, just a few months ago. I have no reason to amend my belief as regards this case and, of course, permitted evidence in a court of law and that which is known but cannot be used are two different things.

[Natalie Severn]

Well, then, what do I know? Apart from the fact that an old retired New Scotland Yard detective inspector friend of mine actually worked on the case with Superintendent Acott and I discussed it with him, again, just a few months ago. I have no reason to amend my belief as regards this case and, of course, permitted evidence in a court of law and that which is known but cannot be used are two different things.

Stewart,
I take it that you know something the rest of us don"t? Is it possible for you to give us a clue.....I am aware that the police were convinced about Hanratty"s guilt but this can only have been once Alphon was eliminated surely?

Thanks
Norma

[Stewart P Evans]

Hanratty

Stewart,
I take it that you know something the rest of us don"t? Is it possible for you to give us a clue.....I am aware that the police were convinced about Hanratty"s guilt but this can only have been once Alphon was eliminated surely?
Thanks
Norma

It's a case that I have been interested in since the time it happened back in 1961. I read about it in the papers at the time and looked at my watch at the moment Hanratty was hanged.

As I have stated before on these boards, an old friend of mine was a detective who assisted on the case in the original investigation and he tells of how evidence that Hanratty had perverted sexual tastes was found at the time but could not be used. I have discussed the case at length with him.

Another friend of mine was very friendly with Mrs Gregsten and he told me of what she had to say about the case.

So, I do speak with some knowledge of what went on.

[Graham]

It's a case that I have been interested in since the time it happened back in 1961. I read about it in the papers at the time and looked at my watch at the moment Hanratty was hanged.

As I have stated before on these boards, an old friend of mine was a detective who assisted on the case in the original investigation and he tells of how evidence that Hanratty had perverted sexual tastes was found at the time but could not be used. I have discussed the case at length with him.

Another friend of mine was very friendly with Mrs Gregsten and he told me of what she had to say about the case.

So, I do speak with some knowledge of what went on.

I recall you posting that some time ago, Stewart, and thinking that it provided a rather interesting insight into JH's character. I've often wondered if this might be connected with the 'file' of personal material that JH handed to Donald Slack, and which was appropriated by Acott during the course of the investigation.

Would it be possible for you to give some details as to Janet Gregsten's discussions with your friend, or should they remain confidential?

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Stewart,
Many thanks for your post . This seems to throw quite a different light on Hanratty since the defence were at pains to use the testimony of his girl friends which pointed to someone behaving in a way that would have been concurrent with the norms of sexual behaviour for a twenty four year old at the time.Added to this was the fact that he had no record of violence.
But you appear to be inferring that he had a secret life that was not allowed to be used in court? If so, was it ever the case that he had "acted out" any of these sexual fantasies?
Best
Norma

[Stewart P Evans]

My Friend

I recall you posting that some time ago, Stewart, and thinking that it provided a rather interesting insight into JH's character. I've often wondered if this might be connected with the 'file' of personal material that JH handed to Donald Slack, and which was appropriated by Acott during the course of the investigation.
Would it be possible for you to give some details as to Janet Gregsten's discussions with your friend, or should they remain confidential?
Graham

My friend, who knew Mrs. Gregsten, is a well-known TV and film scriptwriter and what he told me was in private conversation. However, when we are next in touch I shall discuss the matter with him and see if he is willing to share his recollections. It may not be possible as the family might object to her and what she said being discussed.

[Stewart P Evans]

Preferences

Stewart,
Many thanks for your post . This seems to throw quite a different light on Hanratty since the defence were at pains to use the testimony of his girl friends which pointed to someone behaving in a way that would have been concurrent with the norms of sexual behaviour for a twenty four year old at the time.Added to this was the fact that he had no record of violence.
But you appear to be inferring that he had a secret life that was not allowed to be used in court? If so, was it ever the case that he had "acted out" any of these sexual fantasies?
Best
Norma

I don't know about 'a secret life', this is in relation to sexual preferences which most would consider abnormal. However, I suppose many would ask, in this context, "What is normal?"

[Graham]

My friend, who knew Mrs. Gregsten, is a well-known TV and film scriptwriter and what he told me was in private conversation. However, when we are next in touch I shall discuss the matter with him and see if he is willing to share his recollections. It may not be possible as the family might object to her and what she said being discussed.

Understood.

Graham

[Stewart P Evans]

Witnesses

I have noticed in this thread the tendency to dispose of witness testimony that does not fit a particular person's own theorising or ideas by attacking the character and reputation of the witness.

I was a police officer for nearly thirty years and I have taken hundreds of witness statements. In criminal cases, of their mere nature, many witnesses are often criminals themselves and have bad reputations. It is a very old ploy of defence counsel, authors, and amateur theorists to dispose of this inconvenient evidence when it does not suit their arguments by attacking the witness ad hominen. Paul Foot is a prime example of an author doing this.

However, this does not mean that such witnesses always lied, nor that their statements were false.

[Graham]

I have noticed in this thread the tendency to dispose of witness testimony that does not fit a particular person's own theorising or ideas by attacking the character and reputation of the witness.

I was a police officer for nearly thirty years and I have taken hundreds of witness statements. In criminal cases, of their mere nature, many witnesses are often criminals themselves and have bad reputations. It is a very old ploy of defence counsel, authors, and amateur theorists to dispose of this inconvenient evidence when it does not suit their arguments by attacking the witness ad hominen. Paul Foot is a prime example of an author doing this.

However, this does not mean that such witnesses always lied, nor that their statements were false.

Very well said and also very timely, Stewart. I think we're probably all guilty of doing this, irrespective of which side of the fence we're on.

Graham

[Limehouse]

Very well said and also very timely, Stewart. I think we're probably all guilty of doing this, irrespective of which side of the fence we're on.

Graham

Absolutely, Graham, both camps are guilty of this.

[Limehouse]

It's a case that I have been interested in since the time it happened back in 1961. I read about it in the papers at the time and looked at my watch at the moment Hanratty was hanged.

As I have stated before on these boards, an old friend of mine was a detective who assisted on the case in the original investigation and he tells of how evidence that Hanratty had perverted sexual tastes was found at the time but could not be used. I have discussed the case at length with him.

Another friend of mine was very friendly with Mrs Gregsten and he told me of what she had to say about the case.

So, I do speak with some knowledge of what went on.

Hi Stewart,

I think that, what would have been considered perverted in 1961 would not necessarily be considered so now. Additionally, indulgence in what might be considered perverted adult material, does not necessarily mean that person is likely to act on it. If police were in possession of material that indicated Hanratty had violent tendencies of a sexual nature, surely they should have been placed before the jury as evidence?