a6 murder

[larue]

Hi larue,
I remember finding a stash of Parade mags (not telling you where!) when I was about ten.

hi Caz


ohhhhh! go on... you can whisper it to me, i won't tell anyone...

I'm not sure I buy the idea that your average copper in the early 60s would instantly suspect a man of murder and rape at gunpoint because he had a handful of saucy mags under his bed. Common sense would tell him what that would say about most men, including himself probably.

i don't buy into that idea either, but, as Graham correctly pointed out the other day, the early 60's were a different country. i'm sure attitudes were far more rigid then. [ you'll go blind if you don't stop that!! ] by the end of the 60's things were different. far out man...

So I'm prepared to accept it was something a tad more sinister than that, if it was enough to convince the finders that they were on the right track.

sinister? possibly, but i think, definately 'explicit' i.e. something perhaps, that pictorially represented what had actually happened, hence the connection. a t&b mag wouldn't fit that bill

[larue]

In view of the number of convictions for murder, both capital and non capital , which have been over turned years afterwards, one more, i.e. Hanratty's, would seem to make little difference to the argument for or against capital punishment.

hi RonIpstone

that's a fair point, but it's nice for the home team to win one occasionally?

but all those overturned convictions does make one wonder about the efficacy of our legal system

[larue]

mary christmas

oh, by the way...

can i be the first to wish all posters on this thread, past and present, a very merry christmas / happy hannukah / kwanza / winter solstice / human sacrifice / bank overdraft / credit card maxout, and a very happy and peaceful new year

[babybird67]

a couple of thank yous to Graham

firstly, thank you for being generous enough to loan me your A6 books...i am much better informed now and enjoyed reading all of them for different reasons;

secondly, thank you for your patience in awaiting their return; i know you have had to argue your case without being able to reference them and that this must have been difficult and sometimes frustrating...you'll be pleased to hear your babies are on their way home!

thanks again Graham

Jen

[SteveS]

PS. Yes I got your latest PM, very illuminating as usual. I wonder what Bob will make of the Dabreo lead.

Hi Jim

Fingers crossed on that one. As you know it could be the find of the last 50 years. Keep me posted won't you.

Thnx
Steve

[Limehouse]

Validity of LCN DNA testing questioned in another case

Found this by accident when looking for something else:

http://news.scotsman.com/worldsendmurders/World39s-End-DNA-testing-ruled.3976084.jp

[SteveS]

Found this by accident when looking for something else:

http://news.scotsman.com/worldsendmu...led.3976084.jp

Hi Julie

The three main cases involving LCN (prior to Caddy), where LCN evidence was rejected by either judge or jury are:

The Worlds End (as above)
The Templeton Woods murder trial of Vincent Simpson.
Sean Hoey (Omagh Bombing as above) which led to the suspension of LCN pending the Caddy Review.

The outcome of the Reed Brothers appeal is somewhat overdue.

With any luck the LCN in the Reed appeal will be thrown out as unreliable and a retrial ordered, which would be the just course in that case. It would set a precedent in law for other LCN cases to be looked at again.

Thnx
Steve

[P.L.A]

"It"

Hanratty spent five years of his late adolescence / early manhood in prison, including a continuous spell of three years not long before the A6 murder.

It would be hardly surprising to learn he developed an interest in girlie magazines, etc.

I can’t for the life of me think what, and exactly where, the police found that so convinced them of his guilt. I am even more confused to learn that it was inadmissible evidence. After all, the Crown claimed sex, and not robbery, was Hanratty’s motive for the crime.

If his conversation with France regarding the back seat of a bus was admissible, it is hard to see that material showing he was in to certain things, no matter how obtained, would not be accepted by the court.

Peeping Tom pornography may have interested the police, but it is hardly that damning.

Did he leave “it” in his presumably shared bedroom in the family house when he departed for the West End?

I have no doubt Stewart is telling the truth, but it baffles me.

Peter.

[Limehouse]

We know that Hanratty frequented prostitutes and could probably have paid for some S&M if he was that way inclined. However, his girlfriends stated he was a gentle and considerate lover.

[P.L.A]

Jim behind bars

Hi Julie

The five years Hanratty spent in prison at the age he did must have impacted on various aspects of his development.

Girlfriends speak of his kindness, but former cell mates say all he talked about was sex and women. Difficult to see that five such important years spent in an all male environment didn’t affect him in someway. Perhaps the development of his sexual preferences was influenced by magazines on circulation in the prison system.

Also, with this five years of experience being denied him, just how good a driver was he?

Peter

[Graham]

If I recall correctly, JH said he was taught to drive by a bloke called Bill from Bloxwich, near Walsall in the West Midlands. Not far from where I live, in fact. That he felt the need to go to Ireland to get a driver's license kind of speaks for itself - no-one knows if he ever bothered taking a test in England, British driving-tests being notoriously tough compared with other countries at the time. (I know this from personal experience - the American driving 'test' I took was a joke.) Also, he gave his Irish hire-car a fairly severe test, whacking a car driven by, coincidentally, another Englishman. Plus, his Sunbeam Alpine had dents and a faulty gear-box. All of which sounds suspiciously like he was a poor driver.

I took my UK test in 1966 in my ramshackle 1952 Morris Minor, which I'd had for only a couple of months, and compared to my dad's relatively posh Cortina which I'd driven a lot the Moggie didn't, er, drive too well. I'd also driven my friend's Ford Zodiac automatic, which was so easy to drive it was silly. Pure speculation, but I just wonder if the cars JH nicked were up-market types and thus a dream on wheels compared with a humble Moggie. When my Moggie met its end up the back-end of an Austin Cambridge outside West Bromwich Albion Football ground, I bit the bullet and bought a 'proper' car - a Hillman Minx, and that was a revelation in terms of being easy to drive. Old Moggies were real crunchers in the gear-box department, had horrible cable brakes, and were not designed as a gentleman's conveyance.

Graham

[Limehouse]

Hi Julie

The five years Hanratty spent in prison at the age he did must have impacted on various aspects of his development.

Girlfriends speak of his kindness, but former cell mates say all he talked about was sex and women. Difficult to see that five such important years spent in an all male environment didn’t affect him in someway. Perhaps the development of his sexual preferences was influenced by magazines on circulation in the prison system.

Also, with this five years of experience being denied him, just how good a driver was he?

Peter

Hi Peter,

Yes, I agree, Hanratty must have found five years without female company and the physical comforts that women brought to him very difficult to endure.

Interestingly, MG was also highly sexed which is why he could not stay faithful to his wife. Nobody is suggesting however, that this arrested his development.

Could Hanratty drive well? How well would anyone drive if they had just committed such a crime? Stirling Moss would probably have driven erratically if he had just shot and killed (he thought) two people.

What does seem odd is that, if the car seen driving badly with a 'grinning drive' in control was the murder car, what on earth was the driver thinking of drawing so much attention to himself when MG's blood must still have been splattered all over the car? Seems deranged behaviour to me.

Have a good weekend. Hope you are snow-free. We have tons of the stuff here!

Julie

[jimarilyn]

What does seem odd is that, if the car seen driving badly with a 'grinning driver' in control was the murder car, what on earth was the driver thinking of drawing so much attention to himself when MG's blood must still have been splattered all over the car? Seems deranged behaviour to me.

Yes indeed Julie.

If it was the murder car that was spotted by Blackhall and Skillett near Gant's Hill, the driver was taking a monumental risk by drawing attention to himself through his bad driving and maniacal laughter. Was he perhaps driving under the influence of drink ? It's interesting to note that no-one else seems to have noticed this badly driven car in London prior to Blackhall and Skillet's encounter.

Whatever, the murderer (or accomplice) certainly risked nearby drivers making a note of the car's registration plate number. A real chancer it would seem. A little strange, I think, that Blackhall should recognise the car by the 3 strips of red tape on the rear bumper. Does anyone know if it was commonplace for Moggies of this period to have strips of red tape on the bumper ? Obviously the tape registered more strongly with him than the actual registration plate number just a few inches above.

[Andrew]

Sherrard on ebay

I see that there’s a press photo of Michael Sherrard for sale on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MICHAEL-SHERRARD-DEFENCE-FOR-JAMES-HANRATTY-PRESS-PHOTO_W0QQitemZ300376825011QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Photographs_MJ?hash=item45efda9cb3

Regards
Andrew

[SteveS]

I see that there’s a press photo of Michael Sherrard for sale on ebay:...

Hi Andrew

Wasn't that in one of the books...ie FREE and not £3.49 at last glance?

Thnx
Steve