a6 murder

[Steve]

Hi jimarilyn

Yes, the coincidences are really startling. Early on in the investigation in was suggested that the killer had a ‘double’ wandering around in London leading a parallel life, staying in the same hotels, etc. and yet never actually meeting and totally unknown to one another.

It must have seemed to be a fantastic idea at the time, perhaps it now doesn’t seem so far fetched.

KR
Steve

[Steve]

[QUOTE=Graham;17145] JH travelled around by taxi when he could afford it, apparently thought nothing of flying to Ireland, and liked powerful cars /QUOTE]

Hi Graham

I have always found the flight to Ireland a fascinating aspect of this case. I really don’t think the average man jumped on a plane for a short-haul flight at short-notice and without much planning, or for the kind of reason that Hanratty had, namely to gain a driving licence. I would go so far as to say there was someone or something that made the suggestion to Hanratty. Just putting a personal perspective in this, I took a flight from a regional airport to Heathrow in 1974 to the surprise of family and friends, the cost being several hundred pounds in contemporary money, probably thousands in today’s terms. For Hanratty to have flown to Ireland in 1961 he would have needed three things; the initial idea, funding and research. There was no internet to make research easy in those days! As I said earlier, a fascinating aspect.

KR
Steve

[Graham]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I think it was the police themseves who postulated that the A6 killer had a double...maybe in habits, but not in looks, though, as the Identikit pix apart I really don't think that JH and PLA resembled each other.

What I forgot to mention about JH and PLA is that educationally they were worlds apart. JH was barely literate, whereas PLA had a decent-enough education for the time, and was also to a large extent self-educated in the subjects that interested him. He was also extremely articulate, whereas JH had difficulties in putting a sentence together, and it would appear that he was also highly literate. You get the impression that had PLA not been so self-destructedly irresolute, he could well have really made something of himself.

As to whether the 'PLA' on these boards is actually THE genuine PLA, I'd doubt it...I think that if Alphon still had anything to say about the A6 Case he'd have made his presence known long before this. All the same, it'd be interesting to know how Alphon's made his living over the years...surely not by selling Old Moore's Almanac. He's probably an established expert at milking the State for all it's worth. In which case, bloody good luck to him!

Cheers,

Graham

[jimarilyn]

PLA was not averse (by his own admission) to 'kipping' under the pier at Southend, whereas JH travelled around by taxi when he could afford it, apparently thought nothing of flying to Ireland, and liked powerful cars (even though he was a rubbish driver). PLA spent his days in libraries studying Fascism amongst other subjects - but having said that he was obviously something of a whizz at the growlers, much more than JH it would appear.

Hi Graham,

Interesting he used the term "kipping". He seems to have been a bit of a kipper then (he'd be well at home under Southend Pier !)

As for claiming Hanratty was a rubbish driver, I have to totally disagree. I would veer towards the opinion that he indeed liked fast cars (in common with a lot of 24 year olds) and was probably travelling too fast when he had that very minor bump while in Ireland ( which the attending policeman didn't even report !). I think if he was such a bad driver he would have had a lot of difficulty driving 200 miles up to Manchester in a stolen Jag.

[Steve]

Hi jimarilyn

Most of the evidence points towards Hanratty being at the very least a careless driver! I don't believe there is any evidence to support a theory that he was a good driver. Yes, he drove different vehicles after stealing them, and indeed his criminal convictions including motoring offences, but nonetheless the evidence points towards a lack of expertise,

KR
Steve

[Graham]

Hi Jimarilyin,

The use of the word 'kipping' re: Southend Pier was mine, not PLA's.

Regarding JH's driving abilities, there is more evidence to point to the fact that he wasn't a good driver - his own Sunbeam Alpine was damaged (bodywork and gearbox), and Carole France said that when she went for a drive with him he was all over the road. And yes, he did nick a Jaguar, but it's known that in previous car-thefts he wasn't on his own, reference when he and a mate pinched a Ford and drove it to Birmingham where they sold its spare tyre because they were skint. Maybe JH was not alone when the Jag was pinched. And finally, the Morris Minor when it was found had damage to the front bumper.

I know plenty of drivers who put the fear of God into me when I sit beside them....my own step-son for one.

Cheers,

Graham

[jimarilyn]

Hi jimarilyn

Most of the evidence points towards Hanratty being at the very least a careless driver! I don't believe there is any evidence to support a theory that he was a good driver. Yes, he drove different vehicles after stealing them, and indeed his criminal convictions including motoring offences, but nonetheless the evidence points towards a lack of expertise,

KR
Steve

Hi Steve,

Hanratty taught his younger brother Michael how to drive. Michael, in a filmed interview said that James was a good driver (if he truly thought otherwise then he'd believe his brother to be the very erratic driver of the Morris Minor). James Hanratty in one of his letters from prison to Michael mentions that Michael is a very good driver. I just cannot see how a poor driver would be capable of teaching a learner driver to become a very good driver.

You are possibly referring to Carole France's obviously prejudiced statement where she said "He drove zig-zagging, he was driving from side to side up the road".

[Steve]

There are a few pointers to Hanratty being a poor driver. You mention one, and there was the bump in Ireland, and of course his performance driving away from Deadman's Hill.

[Graham]

Hi Jimarilyn,

Why should Carole France's evidence about JH's driving be 'obviously prejudiced'?

Cheers,

Graham

[jimarilyn]

Hi Jimarilyn,

Why should Carole France's evidence about JH's driving be 'obviously prejudiced'?

Cheers,

Graham

Hi Graham,

Well it goes hand in hand with the way the whole family's attitude towards Hanratty changed when he suddenly became a suspect in the murder. Even if her dubious statement was true surely it would have been a simple matter of Hanratty "showing off" in front of his admiring 16 year old passenger. If he was "zig-zagging" from side to side how come no-one else saw it or reported him for dangerous driving ?

Carole France is a very interesting character indeed. Hanratty claims to have been intimate with her (this would have been around mid-September 1961). If true, then it would suggest (without wishing to seem too judgmental) very slack morals on the part of a 16 year old girl who regarded Hanratty in terms of "Uncle Jim". Carole (who was allowed to smoke by her very liberal parents) it would seem clearly had a penchant for sex. She was very probably in the family way when she married her boyfriend William Nutzlader shortly after her father's suicide (she gave birth in late 1962/early 1963 to her son Richard while still only 17 years old). Now whether she was courting William at the same time as she was intimate with James is open to speculation.

[Graham]

Hi Jimarilyn,

Carole France's evidence regarding JH's driving was given at his trial when she was a prosecution witness - obviously JH was stunned by the fact that the France family, whom he considered friends, had been 'turned' by the police, probably as a result of some heavy leaning on Charles France. Actually, Carole's evidence regarding the 'zig-zagging' was not at all helpful to Hanratty, who the defence was trying to establish as a skilful driver, unlike the person who drove the Morris away from the lay-by. I wonder if Carole had been 'fed' this bit of information by the prosecution - after all, she also denied ever being driven by JH except on that one occassion, when JH claimed that he had driven her on at least two other occasions. So yes, her evidence would appear to be prejudiced or, perhaps more realistically, damaging. Something tells me that poor Carole really went through the hoop courtesy of her family, so little wonder she disappeared from view after the trial.

Not that it really matters, but morals in 1961/62 were not really that much different to today, except in those days people didn't talk about it. By the time I left school in 1963 at least 4 boys had become unmarried fathers. I'd have to say that JH had a pretty powerful sex-drive, as he admitted to visiting prostitutes at least 2-3 times a week. Plus he had girl-friends from time to time. He did, though, say that Charles France would do his nut if ever he found out that Carole had gone with him. By the way, back then just about everybody smoked - it was almost a social necessity. As soon as you left school and earned your own money, you smoked. Or at least the majority of people did - as you said, strange that neither JH nor PLA smoked or drank very much.
Cheers,

Graham

[richardnunweek]

Hi Graham.
When refering to morals at that time, I must agree that little has changed, sex was no different then it had always been, and that has never changed.
I would say that hard drinking was not so pronounced as it appears today in the media , but smoking was advertised everywhere, and was a social must.
One of the chat up lines for us lads, was 'Have you got a light?.
I must admit I miss the'Good old days' You were never alone with 'A strand' [Ciggie] and with the pill [ female freedom] and the great music of that era . life was an experience.
Alas.
Having given up smoking last December 19th[ health reasons] , and aged 61 years, I can only recall the memories of those years with great affection, and accept that time goes on.
All together now.
Regards Richard.

[Steve]

Hi Graham

Yes, France must have been ‘leaned on by the police’ to some extent, but I do think he was already a pretty fragile character even before the A6 murder.

Blom-Cooper didn’t see France as a key witness ‘in any sense’ and believed that he only provided the prosecution with ‘circumstantial evidence’ such as the back seat of a bus conversation. Incidentally, Blom-Cooper’s version of this conversation is at odds with most others, and does tend to favour the prosecution.

France was in a permanent state of depression at this time, out of work and with suicidal tendencies, he had been given ECT treatment and had to be accompanied to the Bedford trial by nurses. According to one account he seemed to wander around London in a zombie-like state. When he befriended Hanratty, who had recently been released from prison, France must have been aware of Hanratty’s criminal record, indeed France himself was an ex-convict. Their mutual prison experiences must have featured in conversation and been one reason for friendship, which makes France’s later horror at Hanratty’s criminality all the more puzzling.

One other point to ponder; if France was indeed such a doleful character at that time, what was it that drove him to sharpen up his act and place the crime artefacts where they would be found sooner or later? It’s a question we have asked before, and the only plausible answer seems to be that his plan was to keep Hanratty away from his family, and especially his daughter.

Kind regards,
Steve

[jimarilyn]

Peter Alphon must have been well aware of the A6 Committee's campaigns and activities in the late 1960's. One of the placards which were paraded around London at the time clearly stated:

A6 MURDER

(Photograph)

PETER ALPHON

MURDERER


If Alphon was innocent of the murder, then why did he not sue the A6 Committee for blatant libel and defamation of character ?

[Steve]

Hi jimarilyn

Do you think perhaps he was cashing in on it? The newspapers paid more than a libel action would have done?

KR
Steve