a6 murder

[Graham]

Hi Julie,

Don't know much about the rolled-up trouser brigade (apart from what I've read re: Jack The Ripper) and as far as I'm aware I don't know any Masons. Your theory is obviously valid, but to counter it I'd say that most Masons were/are from the more upper reaches of society than a clerical worker at Scotland Yard who lived with his wife in two rooms in Gleneagle Road. This is not to say that Felix Alphon couldn't be a Mason, nor is it to say that because his son was in trouble the Scotland Yard flatfeet looked upon matters referring to Peter Louis somewhat favourably - anything's possible.

But I wonder if PLA's lenient treatment was perhaps due to his threatening to sue the police for wrongful arrest (I believe he eventually did anyway) or, more darkly, he knew something that the police would prefer not to be made public. There are so many minor mysteries and question-marks intertwined in the A6 Case that I repeat - anything's possible. Mrs Dalal did identify Alphon as her attacker during the second I.D. parade of the 24th or 25th September (from what I can make out Woffinden says the parade was on Saturday 24th, Foot says it was on Sunday 25th) and on 26th September PLA was duly charged with the attack upon her. Yet reading both Foot and Woffinden leaves me with the faint feeling that the police were not 100% sure that PLA was Mrs Dalal's attacker. All a bit confusing, really.

Cheers,

Graham

[john]

Another odd item which makes all this fascinating.

The Hanratty have always been portrayed as poor and although a hard working family at time in 1961, they did not have much cash ie living in a council home.

Yet they had a telephone since the late 1950's at a time when it was by no means common to have a phone or priority. My family could only afford one in 1970. Also the Frances' even by everyone for or against are we told very destitute at the time ie Charlotte pawning items etc. Yet they own a phone at the time. Dveryone in this case of phoning private lines everywhere even though there is no money.

Alphon's parents did not have a phone in Streatham, to put this all into context about the strangeness of the finances going on. His Mother used to have to go to the corner of the road where there was a public box. How he got in touch with her remains a mystery.

Also is is well known amongst you that there is a gay thread running through this case. Apart from the Alphon/Justice relationship, Alphon mentions meeting Ewer in the White Inn and the Elephant and Castle. Both then were known as gay cruising pubs!! Also the Bear Inn at Maidenhead was also known as a cruisy area then.

I suspect that we know but just a fraction of the real aspects of this case whether you are a 'for' or 'against' Hanratty.

[Victor]

Valerie Storie in her description of the gunman said that his hair was receding at the sides, an often overlooked remark. This could not be said of James Hanratty but could definitely be said of Peter Alphon as 3 of the images below clearly show.

She also said that the killer had large staring eyes. The 4th image shows Alphon with an almost hypnotic stare.

Hi James,
I can't see the point of trying to link statements made by Valerie with pictures of PLA because she had the opportunity to pick him out at an ID parade and categorically didn't, therefore it doesn't matter how closely PLA resembles her various descriptions.

KR,
Vic.

[Graham]

Hi John,

Also is is well known amongst you that there is a gay thread running through this case. Apart from the Alphon/Justice relationship, Alphon mentions meeting Ewer in the White Inn and the Elephant and Castle. Both then were known as gay cruising pubs!! Also the Bear Inn at Maidenhead was also known as a cruisy area then.

Well known? First I've heard of it, and I can only take your word for it that the pubs you mention were gay cruising pubs. Not that it proves a thing, but Ewer had been married, and he and Janet Gregsten ended up as lovers and living together for a few years, or so it's been asserted. Alphon probably went along with Justice and Fox (who were overtly gay) so long as they were lashing out lots of £££'s on him for fancy restaurants, hotels, and so forth. Alphon was a very adaptable guy...

I honestly can't see a 'gay thread' running through this case - JH was anything but.

I suspect that we know but just a fraction of the real aspects of this case whether you are a 'for' or 'against' Hanratty.

You're dead right there, mate!

Cheers,

Graham

[Limehouse]

Hi Julie,

Don't know much about the rolled-up trouser brigade (apart from what I've read re: Jack The Ripper) and as far as I'm aware I don't know any Masons. Your theory is obviously valid, but to counter it I'd say that most Masons were/are from the more upper reaches of society than a clerical worker at Scotland Yard who lived with his wife in two rooms in Gleneagle Road. This is not to say that Felix Alphon couldn't be a Mason, nor is it to say that because his son was in trouble the Scotland Yard flatfeet looked upon matters referring to Peter Louis somewhat favourably - anything's possible.

But I wonder if PLA's lenient treatment was perhaps due to his threatening to sue the police for wrongful arrest (I believe he eventually did anyway) or, more darkly, he knew something that the police would prefer not to be made public. There are so many minor mysteries and question-marks intertwined in the A6 Case that I repeat - anything's possible. Mrs Dalal did identify Alphon as her attacker during the second I.D. parade of the 24th or 25th September (from what I can make out Woffinden says the parade was on Saturday 24th, Foot says it was on Sunday 25th) and on 26th September PLA was duly charged with the attack upon her. Yet reading both Foot and Woffinden leaves me with the faint feeling that the police were not 100% sure that PLA was Mrs Dalal's attacker. All a bit confusing, really.

Cheers,

Graham

Hi Graham,

You don't really have to be very high up the social scale to be a Mason and you didn't then either. You have to be committed to your trade or profession and committed to doing good works. It's a bit like a trade union but without the strikes and with much more networking. The Alphons do seem to have been living in rather reduced circumstances but that was, and is now, not so uncommon for immigrants, even those of educated backgrounds. It was hard for them to get mortgages (hard for anyone in those days) and very often private landlords would not rent to them so they had to live where they could. I suspect that the authorities looked sympathetically on Alphon and his crimes because they wanted to help out his father but also stop the name of Scotland Yard being dragged through the mud. Of course, Alphon didn't care a hoot what publicity he created.

There is another possibility. Alphon may seem to have been a drfiter, a loner and a social outcast but he may also have been very useful to the police in some ways because of the life he led. For example, he frequented dog tracks and may have been paid to keep an eye on bookies (only on-track betting was allowed in those days) and other types that were attracted to the envronment. Despite his contempt for the police, it would have been easy money for him to earn.

With regard to your point about the police perhaps not being 100% Alphon was responsible for the attack on Mrs Dalal, he weas picked out by Mrs Dalal at an identity parade and that was good enough in the case of Hanratty. I don't really think a lot of them cared that much about whether someone was guilty as long as there was some evidence such as a positive identity on parade - unless the accused was very useful or served some other capacity.

[Victor]

With regard to your point about the police perhaps not being 100% Alphon was responsible for the attack on Mrs Dalal, he weas picked out by Mrs Dalal at an identity parade and that was good enough in the case of Hanratty. I don't really think a lot of them cared that much about whether someone was guilty as long as there was some evidence such as a positive identity on parade - unless the accused was very useful or served some other capacity.

Hi Julie,

PLA was found not guilty of the Dalal assault though, and it's rather unfair to say Hanratty was convicted solely on the VS ID, although that was the major nail in his coffin, there's also all the other evidence that we've been discussing recently. And that's the corroboration that's needed, there isn't any for PLA\Dalal.

KR,
Vic.

[jimarilyn]

Alphon's parents did not have a phone in Streatham, to put this all into context about the strangeness of the finances going on. His Mother used to have to go to the corner of the road where there was a public box. How he got in touch with her remains a mystery.

Hi John,

Alphon kept in touch with his mother by phoning her at her office.
Alphon was very fond of the telephone and would often use it as an instrument with which to frighten people.
He made literally hundreds of nuisance calls to Lord Russell within the space of one year (60 within 90 minutes one evening !) in the mid 1960's, which must have cost a small fortune. Who was supplying him with funds during this period ? Was he keeping BT in business ?
Interesting to note that a very apt anagram of his name reads "PHONE LATER, P".

Here's a piece of trivia (answers on a postcard please) for anyone who likes quizzes......

What special thing do Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley and Peter Alphon have in common ?

[Limehouse]

Hi John,

Alphon kept in touch with his mother by phoning her at her office.
Alphon was very fond of the telephone and would often use it as an instrument with which to frighten people.
He made literally hundreds of nuisance calls to Lord Russell within the space of one year (60 within 90 minutes one evening !) in the mid 1960's, which must have cost a small fortune. Who was supplying him with funds during this period ? Was he keeping BT in business ?
Interesting to note that a very apt anagram of his name reads "PHONE LATER, P".

Here's a piece of trivia (answers on a postcard please) for anyone who likes quizzes......

What special thing do Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley and Peter Alphon have in common ?

Hi Jim,

Your point about how Alphon could afford to make so many crank phone calls is a very good one. Although most of the calls would have cost only tuppence in old money, when you think about hundreds of calls being made, it all adds up. Alphon's mother was giving him several pounds a week but a lot of that went on hotels and 'the dogs'. Where did his money come from? And more to the point, how could his mother afford to give him so much money? Did she simply work to support him?


Can't do your quiz I'm afraid. never any good at cryptic clues.

[Limehouse]

Hanratty's Habits

Those who accept that Hanratty was the murderer seem to be able to offer no motive for the crime except that it may have been Hanratty changing his model of criminality by 'getting into hold ups'. I supposethat if this is the case, this crime might have been a trial run, just to see what it felt like to hold someone up with a gun. Perhaps he meant to wave the gun around for a few minutes and then make off with their watches and/or other jewellery. Perhaps that was the plan - but things got out of hand.

However, it doesn't really add up does it? Hanratty's history was house-breaking and car stealing. He stole high value, high powered cars. If he wanted to up the anti, why not hold up a decent car, threaten the occupant(s) with the gun, then take the car? This would have been risky, of course, but how much more risky than what actually happened? Wasn't taking hostages risky? Doesn't taking hostages point to some motive other than robbery?

No matter how much I try, I can't come to terms with the idea of Hanratty wondering around the countryside wearing black gloves, with a gun and six boxes of cartridges in his pocket, stumbling across a couple having nooky in a Moggie, one of whom happens to have distant connections to Hanratty's friends in the underworld but who Hanratty unwittingly decides to hold hostage and eventually kill. How on earth did Hanratty even spot them in the cornfield? Where was he in the hours leading up to the crime? How did he manage to look 'immaculate' if he had been hiding out somewhere until dark and if he wasn't hiding out somewhere, why wasn't he seen anywhere? Did someone drive him to the area?

[jimarilyn]

Those who accept that Hanratty was the murderer seem to be able to offer no motive for the crime except that it may have been Hanratty changing his model of criminality by 'getting into hold ups'. I supposethat if this is the case, this crime might have been a trial run, just to see what it felt like to hold someone up with a gun. Perhaps he meant to wave the gun around for a few minutes and then make off with their watches and/or other jewellery. Perhaps that was the plan - but things got out of hand.

However, it doesn't really add up does it? Hanratty's history was house-breaking and car stealing. He stole high value, high powered cars. If he wanted to up the anti, why not hold up a decent car, threaten the occupant(s) with the gun, then take the car? This would have been risky, of course, but how much more risky than what actually happened? Wasn't taking hostages risky? Doesn't taking hostages point to some motive other than robbery?

No matter how much I try, I can't come to terms with the idea of Hanratty wondering around the countryside wearing black gloves, with a gun and six boxes of cartridges in his pocket, stumbling across a couple having nooky in a Moggie, one of whom happens to have distant connections to Hanratty's friends in the underworld but who Hanratty unwittingly decides to hold hostage and eventually kill. How on earth did Hanratty even spot them in the cornfield? Where was he in the hours leading up to the crime? How did he manage to look 'immaculate' if he had been hiding out somewhere until dark and if he wasn't hiding out somewhere, why wasn't he seen anywhere? Did someone drive him to the area?

A very perceptive post Julie, and one I endorse wholeheartedly.

I remain convinced that this was a pre-planned abduction and that had the occupants of that humble Moggie been anyone other than MG and VS there would have been no A6 Murder.
The person who had most to gain from the elimination of Mike Gregsten was Janet Gregsten's brother-in-law William Ewer.
I can't escape the strong feeling and impression that William Ewer had, over the years, developed an intense dislike for his handsome, philandering brother-in-law.

Even Big Baz thought it was an inside job.

[Graham]

Hi James,

I remain convinced that this was a pre-planned abduction and that had the occupants of that humble Moggie been anyone other than MG and VS there would have been no A6 Murder.
The person who had most to gain from the elimination of Mike Gregsten was Janet Gregsten's brother-in-law William Ewer.
I can't escape the strong feeling and impression that William Ewer had, over the years, developed an intense dislike for his handsome, philandering brother-in-law.

Even Big Baz thought it was an inside job.

If Ewer (or anyone else) had seriously wished to put the arm on Mike Gregsten, then by directly or indirectly employing someone like James Hanratty to do the honours, so to speak, seems to me to be a highly unlikely, not to mention rather risky, way of going about it. Ewer (and possibly any other 'interested' party) would have known where Mike lived, and surely the 'sensible' approach would have been to send someone round to his flat 'for a word'. I always bear in mind the fact that, according to Valerie, she and Gregsten had initially parked somewhere else that evening, but for whatever reason had decided on the spur of the moment to move to the cornfield entrance. This being the case, if it was a pre-planned abduction, how on earth did JH know where to find them?

And, seriously, in those far-off days did respectable, bespectacled, ordinary, not-too-physically attractive gents such as Ewer 'eliminate' the husbands of women they rather fancied? Maybe in detective novels, but in real life I hardly think so. If Janet had even the slightest inkling that Ewer was in any way responsible for her husband's murder, do you honestly think that she'd have lived with him for a number of years following the crime?

OK, fact can, as they say, be stranger than fiction, but the scenario of Ewer as "Mister X" or the "Central Figure" simply does not strike true. Ewer may well have disliked Mike (womanisers like Mike are often disliked by other men) but I can't so long as I've got a hole in my sock see that as a reason to have him killed.

'Big Baz' did indeed refer to the case as a "gas-meter", i.e., inside job, but he never revealed the reason(s) why he felt that way. Unless, of course, it wasn't the only thing about the A6 Case he chose not to reveal...one never knows, does one?

I still feel that JH's abduction of Mike and Valerie was the result of total frustration at not being able to pull a bigger job - he had his gun, his bullets, and he felt he ought to put them to good use. Had there been a courting couple in a Jag nearby, I rather think he'd have gone for them instead of the occupants of a humble Moggie.

Cheers,

Graham

[richardnunweek]

Hi
Summing up the whole A6 murder case in a nutshell.
We have a useless individual by the name of James Hanratty, who obtained a gun, and boxes of cartridges, from sources unknown, who for reasons known to him had desires to obtain future wealth, by using these items as a menace.
When he came across Michael and Valerie, he decided to use his new toy to be the big 'I am' , even making childish remarks like . its so big, i feel like a cowboy.[ meaning the gun]
Unfortunately this waste of space character, who was a absolute coward, and proberly watched to many American B movies, reacted in a moment of madness/fright at Gregsons Movements, and two shots were fired, killing Mike instantly.
Whilst 'finking' , he decided he might as well take full advantage and rape the girl, and whilst contemplating his next move, and about to leave Valerie on the hard concrete sitting by her dead lover, his instinct was to shoot her dead , so having no witness alive.
After the arrest , he had no choice, because of a desire to escape the hangman, but to plead his innocence, to the point where he would have sworn on his whole families lives if need be.
It is obvious i believe this waster to have been the cretan, that ruined the lifes of many .
And I firmly believe justice in this case, was carried out.
Regards Richard.

[Graham]

Hi Richard,

I think you've summed up pretty well the salient facts (or, rather, features) of the A6 Case pretty well. I say 'features' rather than 'facts', because in this strange case absolute hard facts are few and far between.

Why, or how, could the gunman rape a woman after committing murder? I've read that Mafia hit-men, after killing someone, needed sexual release and needed it fast. I've also read the same thing about attendants at executions in America. The same for those sub-humans who engineered the mass deaths at Nazi concentration-camps - they needed the services of the camp brothel immediately afterwards. I wonder if British hangmen over the years felt the same need. For reasons totally foreign to me, it seems that the act of killing engenders a need for sexual release. Having never been in such a situation, I can add no more. Chilling.

Graham

[Limehouse]

Hi
Summing up the whole A6 murder case in a nutshell.
We have a useless individual by the name of James Hanratty, who obtained a gun, and boxes of cartridges, from sources unknown, who for reasons known to him had desires to obtain future wealth, by using these items as a menace.
When he came across Michael and Valerie, he decided to use his new toy to be the big 'I am' , even making childish remarks like . its so big, i feel like a cowboy.[ meaning the gun]
Unfortunately this waste of space character, who was a absolute coward, and proberly watched to many American B movies, reacted in a moment of madness/fright at Gregsons Movements, and two shots were fired, killing Mike instantly.
Whilst 'finking' , he decided he might as well take full advantage and rape the girl, and whilst contemplating his next move, and about to leave Valerie on the hard concrete sitting by her dead lover, his instinct was to shoot her dead , so having no witness alive.
After the arrest , he had no choice, because of a desire to escape the hangman, but to plead his innocence, to the point where he would have sworn on his whole families lives if need be.
It is obvious i believe this waster to have been the cretan, that ruined the lifes of many .
And I firmly believe justice in this case, was carried out.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard,

That all sounds fine and dandy mate, but it simply will not do. You are correct in one sense in that Hanratty was, to some extent, a waste of space - and he would be the first to admit that his life had not been spent in persuit of an honest living. However, there are some great, big holes in your argument.

1. Hanratty was not the first suspect and was not even a good suspect until Valerie Storie failed to pick the first suspect, Alphon, out on an identity parade. Until she failed to identify Alphon, the police were convinced Alphon was the man.
2. The conversation you describe that took place in the car does not fit Hanratty's personality at all. Due to his learning difficulties, conversational aspects that would come easily to many of us (such as metaphor, simile and pun) would not be used by someone with these learning difficulties.
3. Hanratty had no history of violence or sexual perversion. He was generally passive, he enjoyed a normal sex life (as testified by various girlfriends) and he was well-liked, despite his criminality.
4. A huge amount of evidence that could have been used by the defence was held back at the trial. This includes a log book that would show the Morris Minor had travelled far more miles on the night of the crime than would have accounted for the journey taken by the killer and his hostages and the following journey to London. There is strong evidence that the car did not travel to London immediately after the crime, and that it was not abandoned in Ilford at 7am as proposed by the prosecution - but much later than 7am. That means that those who testified that they saw Hanratty driving the car at that time in London were 'mistaken' and what's more - the police knew this.
5. Scientific tests on statements made by Hanratty and written by the police show that some statements by Hanratty were altered after they had been taken. In these altered statements, things that Hanratty is alleged to have siad or not said to the police were changed.

You are right Richard, this was a terrible crime for all concerned. Valerie and Michael and their families were owed the truth. There was a duty on the police to identify the real killer. I am not 100% sure they did that.

[Tony]

Hi Richard,

I think you've summed up pretty well the salient facts (or, rather, features) of the A6 Case pretty well. I say 'features' rather than 'facts', because in this strange case absolute hard facts are few and far between.

Why, or how, could the gunman rape a woman after committing murder? I've read that Mafia hit-men, after killing someone, needed sexual release and needed it fast. I've also read the same thing about attendants at executions in America. The same for those sub-humans who engineered the mass deaths at Nazi concentration-camps - they needed the services of the camp brothel immediately afterwards. I wonder if British hangmen over the years felt the same need. For reasons totally foreign to me, it seems that the act of killing engenders a need for sexual release. Having never been in such a situation, I can add no more. Chilling.

Graham

Just a quick observation on your post Graham; and this is not to be construed in anyway that I accept that the gunman was Hanratty, because I don’t. I simply contribute this to reinforce your view Graham.

This concerns the Craig and Bentley case and the trial judge Lord Chief Justice, Rayner Goddard.

You wouldn’t want to be up before that gentleman Graham.

This from Ludovic Kennedy:

After Goddard’s death his clerk, Arthur Smith, told John Parris (Craig’s Counsel) that on the last day of a murder trial he would bring a fresh pair of trousers to the robbing room, as Goddard was in the habit of ejaculating into his current pair when sentencing a prisoner to death.
While not wishing to linger on the mechanics of this, I have to say I find it hard to believe that at his age his ejaculation was spontaneous and can only conclude that, with the bench protecting his lower half from the eyes of the court, he did his business unseen.


Tony.

I hope that has not offended anyone.