a6 murder

[Victor]

Hi Julie,

Blood type - between 30% and 40% of people are type O secretors depending upon your source, so that eliminates about 2/3rds of the men in the courtroom (obviously men because of the semen).

Yes it was 40 years before it was found to be Hanratty's and I realise and accept that some people dispute the findings, but I personally don't think there is a valid reason to do so.

The cartridge cases were forensically linked to the murder weapon and so it is relevant physical evidence. Hanratty slept in the closest bed on the night before the murder, as he admitted, so that is forensic evidence linking him with the crime. Now, we have to discuss the significance of that evidence, and from your post you cite the time delay as a reason for limiting the significance, but that doesn't remove the fact that it is direct physical forensic evidence.

Are you sure Alphon refused to surrender his clothes? Could I ask where you got this information from because he definitely surrendered himself to the police when he realised he was wanted for the murder, whereas Hanratty went on the run first to Liverpool and then Blackpool.

KR,
Vic.

[Limehouse]

Hi Victor,

Yes, Alphon did surrender himself to the police but he refused to say where his spare clothes were kept or to surrender them. Woffinden publishes detailed transcripts of the interview between the police and Alphon during which he repeated his refusal to surrender his spare clothes or say where they were. This was not followed up because Valerie Storie failed to pick him out at the identity parade.

The cartridge evidence does not directly link Hanratty with the crime. Yes, the cartridges were found in the room that he slept in on the chair next to bed in which he slept but they were not found the day after the murder, they were found several weeks later. None of Hanratty's finger prints, hair or skin flakes were found at the scene of the murder or on the cartridges. The cartridges could easily have been planted. They are physical evidence, certainly, but not forensic evidence.

You say that Hanratty 'went on the run' but that is only if you accept that he was the murderer. If he was innocent, he could not have been 'on the run'. Hanratty himself admitted he went north to sell booty from burglaries. He was totally honest about this.

[Graham]

Hi Julie,

The cartridge cases were not found until a long time after the crime because The Vienna didn't operate a regime of scrupulous cleanliness and room-cleaning. They were found only when Mr Crocker was carrying out a general inspection and discovered the cases when he bent down to tear a piece of loose fabric from the chair. I guess the cases must have rolled down the seat of the chair and were lodged between the seat and the back, and almost certainly not visible to anyone casually entering and leaving the room. The time-lapse does not mean that they were planted - it just means that they weren't found for a long time.

The cases were forensically linked to the gun found on the 36A bus. The firing-pin of every gun leaves an indentation on the base of the cartridge-case, and this indentation is like a finger-print - no two guns leave precisely the same indentation, and comparison is made microscopically. You could argue that JH didn't put the gun on the bus himself, that it was planted there by 'someone', but it still remains that the cases were, and are, valid forensic evidence.

The car has always baffled me. You have to understand that although the police found no forensic evidence linking the car to JH, they found none linking the car to Alphon, either. I believe they found evidence that other people, example Janet Gregsten, had been in the car and, of course, finger-prints from Michael Gregsten and Valerie Storie. Valerie did say that the gunman wore gloves, so maybe that explains the lack of prints. However, I'm surprised that no fibre from clothing was found, or mud or soil from shoes. I haven't a clue how fibre was collected in 1961 - nowadays I think they use sticky tape. Maybe JH gave the car a darn good valeting before he abandoned it, but it that's the case it must have been almost clinically clean.
Very strange.

If, as I believe, JH was nowhere near the North-west of England immediately after the murder, the question arises: where in fact was he? Leonard Miller asks the same question. He must have been somewhere. Local? Far away? Hiding out with one of his underworld mates? Who knows? He stuck hard to his Liverpool and Rhyl itinerary, but was never able to produce any hard proof that he'd been in either place at the crucial time.

Cheers,

Graham

[Limehouse]

Hello Graham,

Yes, you are right, it is entirely possible that the cartridges were not found for several weeks because of poor cleaning routiens at the Vienna. Equally, the cartridges could have been planted the day after the murder.

It is interesting that you mention the lack of forensic evidence of anyone other than VS and MG at the scene of the murder. This is what I find so strange. If he was the murderer, Hanratty went to the trouble of wearing gloves and, as you say, possibly giving the inside of the car a thorough going over so that no personal evidence of him was left. So, why was he careless enough to leave two cartridge cases in his hotel room? I do find it suspicious that there was no evidence at all of the killer at the scene of the murder (if we ignore VS's panties) but there is, apparently, external evidence that links Hanratty to the gun and the cartridges in two different locations and that witnesses who link him to the same are known criminals and liars (France's testimony re the conversation about the back seat of a bus and Nudd's evidence about who did and did not stay in the room that night). You see, if these things were planted, and Hanratty was innocent, it would be necessary not to find another person's forensics at the scene of the crime. Of course, as the car was found soon after the crime and before Hanratty was a suspect, a frame-up would point to an 'inside job' - someone known to Gregsten or Storie for example, rather than a police frame-up.

Your point about where Hanratty was following the crime if he was not up north is a very interesting one. The prosecution did not seem to be able to offer an explanation and it seems the defence didn't ask for one. Of course, we know where Alphon was. He was skulking in a hotel room, hiding away, not coming out for meals and generally raising suspicion against himself.

[Graham]

Hi Julie,

Of course, we know where Alphon was. He was skulking in a hotel room, hiding away, not coming out for meals and generally raising suspicion against himself.

But that was Alphon's milieu. He was a wayward, listless, wandering kind of bloke who appeared to be as much at home under Southend Pier (according to what he himself claimed) as he was in a good hotel and in the company of bons viveurs such as Justice and Fox. (Excuse me French).
It's said that when the police searched his room at The Alexandra Court they found in his suitcase a copy of a newspaper opened and folded at headlines concerning the A6 Case. Maybe, maybe not. (Woffinden refers to this; not sure if Foot does). It sounds a bit suspect to me, to be honest.

He was, not to put too fine a point on it, a total eccentric. Today he'd be described as a nutter. I can remember when I was a kid some bloke knocked on our door selling Old Moore's Almanac, and my mother bought one just to get rid of the odd person at her door. Alphon was, I should think, unemployable in any genuinely responsible position, maybe as a result of his upbringing, being evacuated, and so forth. Selling Old Moore's was probably as much as he wanted to get involved in, regarding a 'proper' job. Yet on the other hand, he was obviously a very intelligent, articulate person - witness the filmed interview at his Paris 'Press Conference' when he very easily took the BBC reporter to the cleaners. He was firmly in charge on that occasion, and I rather feel that he was equally 'in charge' in his relationship with Justice and Fox - he cashed in on them, and took them to the cleaners. Chances are that, had hebeen in the dock instead of Hanratty, he'd have been 'detained at HM Pleasure' as someone not quite in full control of his actions.

For all this, I just can't see him as a cold-blooded murderer and rapist. It doesn't fit.

Cheers,

Graham

[Mike Covell]

Hi gang, this isn't my area of expertise, so I will keep it short and to the point.

I recently aquired a book entitled Bodies of Evidence by Brian Innes, published 2001 by Index Books.

The book features cases from the past 100 years covering all manner of forensic investigations, and the clues and solutions that were discovered along the way.

On page 230-231 is a short discussion of the A6 Murder, which as one cam imagine is very brief, but interesting nonetheless.

What's strange about this case, is that someone has written in blue biro in the margin,

March 2002 Hanratty body exumed and DNA used to confirm that he DID committ this crime.

No other case in the book has any notes on it, but someone has written in the margin on this case! I will quite happily scan and email the image to anyone that wishes to read/see it.

[Graham]

Hi Mike,

A shiver ran down my spine when I saw your post, because La Cornwell has a book called 'Body Of Evidence', and I though, Oh no, she's not got into the A6 has she? No, thank God.

I've not heard of the book you mention, but the name Brian Innes is vaguely familiar. Maybe that margin note was written at the time the DNA results were made public, and whoever was reading the book just then decided to update the entry on the A6. Interesting, though.

Cheers,

Graham

[Victor]

Hi Mike,

Did the book mention that they were fairly convinced it was "a brother of Michael and a son of Mary"? That's why they exhumed James, to be completely sure.

KR,
Vic.

[Victor]

Yes, you are right, it is entirely possible that the cartridges were not found for several weeks because of poor cleaning routiens at the Vienna. Equally, the cartridges could have been planted the day after the murder.

Hi Julie,
As I said previously, the presence of the cartridges in the Vienna, the forensic connection to the murder weapon and the connection that Hanratty and the Indian gentleman (whose name I forget) are the only people who occupied that room are a physical link. The time delay allows the possibility that they were planted, although there is no forensic evidence for that possibility.

So, why was he careless enough to leave two cartridge cases in his hotel room?

It's possible that the cartridge cases fell out of Hanratty's bag and down the back of the cushion and he simply didn't notice that they had gone.

And then there is the hanky the gun and bullets were wrapped in - that Hanratty identified as his own I believe - again we have direct forensic evidence linking Hanratty to the crime, but again the "it could have been planted" argument crops up, but this time the time-delay is a day.

I think that the only possibilities this time are the Frances who had a bag of JH laundry. Louise Anderson also had a suitcase of belongings but the police didn't know about her connection to JH at the time the gun was found, the Hanratty family themselves - again no way the police could have made the connection.

So that seems to rule out a police conspiracy with regard to the gun\hanky.

Your point about where Hanratty was following the crime if he was not up north is a very interesting one. The prosecution did not seem to be able to offer an explanation and it seems the defence didn't ask for one.

When did JH go to Ireland for his driving licence and prang in the hire car?

KR,
Vic.

[Graham]

Hi Victor,

When did JH go to Ireland for his driving licence and prang in the hire car?

He went on Sept 4th and flew back on Sept 8th travelling as Ryan. His family didn't know he had returned until Acott arrived at their house to announce that their son was wanted for car offences in Ireland. That was on Sept 26th, so obviously by then Acott had made the crucial Ryan/Hanratty connection - to this day it's unclear precisely how.

Cheers,

Graham

[larue]

He went on Sept 4th and flew back on Sept 8th travelling as Ryan. His family didn't know he had returned until Acott arrived at their house to announce that their son was wanted for car offences in Ireland. That was on Sept 26th, so obviously by then Acott had made the crucial Ryan/Hanratty connection - to this day it's unclear precisely how.

Have started to re-read Foot after maybe a couple of years and I'd forgotten just how good he is. I meant just to read up about The Vienna and Nudds, but began at the beginning. And here's something I'd forgotten:

it was Ewer who first tipped off the police re: "J Ryan". This was following the 'She Saw Him At The Cleaners' episode when Janet Gregsten got scared, etc., and Ewer went into the sho and got the assistant to show him the customer-book. He thereupon phoned Scotland Yard. Shortly afterwards, following the discovery of the cartridge-cases at The Vienna, Acott found the name 'J Ryan' in the visitors' book. (However, quite how Acott linked 'J Ryan' with 'James Hanratty' not even Foot knows....but the suggestion is that Dixie France supplied the necessary tip-off).

hi Graham

the flowershop incident, as i remember it, would have provided scotland yard with the names j ryan and hanratty, also the sycamore grove address. i'm sure such an experienced cop as acott would have had records do a search on those data, then james h would have been revealed in all his felonius glory, along with an accurate description... maybe the j ryan alias would already be known, if it had been revealed in an earlier trial for burglary. if not, i'm sure dixie france was happy to oblige
was there a ryan in the extended hanratty family i wonder? a cousin perhaps?

[john]

Whilst reading again Foot, the enigma of Peter Alphon and my thoughts that he may not be quite the drifter the media told us etc and rather like Mr Miller who read one passage in Foots' book and was certain of Hanratty's guilt, i thouhgt about the following which I have never seen picked up/commented on.

When on trial in 1966 for the nuisance calls to Lord Russell Alphon was tried at the magistrates court. his Barrister was a Mr Sebag Montefiore. Unusual for starters that a barrister rather than a solicitor represented a client in a magistrates court then in 1966. However Mr Montefiore, famous now for writing a rather good biography of Stalin and well known for being to the right of politics-fitting in with what we have read about Alphon, did not even then come cheap. Legal aid in the form of 1966 then would not have paid total amount for a barrister of his repute to appear in a magistrates court. In 1966 the libel cases against the media etc had all been as we know well settled previously, thus the question must be asked-where exactly did Alphon get the money to pay for a barrister of the calibre of Mr Montefiore who would I suggest only appear in a Magistrates court unless the fee was worthwhile!!

His solicitors Galbraith and Best were also rather well to do as practices go.
Again where was the money coming from a drifter, and also the connections to hire such legal people.

[john]

Sorry Simon wrote the the Stalin biography. However you can see from below that the barrister was rather well to do etc. Thus for a magistrates court-not a commmittal which was diferent then in 1966 as you needed a barrister even in the magistrates for a committal hearing, but a straightforward magistrates court trial, Mr Sebag-Montefiore was brought in and seemingly successful as the sentence given out to Alphon was derisory.

Indeed any Sebag-Montefiore contact means you are moving in upper echelon circles of contact.

Harold Henry Sebag-Montefiore was born on 5 December 1924.1 He is the son of John Sebag-Montefiore and Violet Maud Solomon.1
Harold Henry Sebag-Montefiore was educated at Stowe School, Buckingham, Buckinghamshire, England.1 He fought in the Second World War, with the Royal Air Force.1 He graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge University, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, England, in 1947 with a Bachelor of Arts (B.A.).1 He graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge University, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, England, in 1950 with a Master of Arts (M.A.).1 He was admitted to Lincoln's Inn in 1951 entitled to practice as a Barrister-at-Law.1 He held the office of Alderman of London.1 He lived in 1965 at 11 Adam and Eve Mews, London, England.1

[Graham]

Hi John,

What you say about the way Alphon was represented is perfectly true, and he did get off very lightly.

However, his two pals Jean Justice and Jeremy Fox had loads of lolly and the right Establishment connections, and as Fox was himself a barrister maybe it's not too much of a stretch to see him engaging Sebag-Montefiore via the old mates network. Plus, it's possible that Alphon's own bank-account was still flush in 1966.

I think Alphon was more of a live-by-the-day advantage-taker than a genuine drifter. He always gives me the impression of being a bloke who would be quite content to sleep at The Savoy tonight and in the street (or under Southend Pier) tomorrow night. He lived off his wits and also gambling and he was often pretty successful at the latter, or so I understand it.
It's a real pity that it seems no-one had the opportunity to interview him before he died earlier this year - but then again, could you really rely on anything he said?

Cheers,

Graham

[Graham]

Hi Larue,

I'm not sure that both 'Ryan' and 'Hanratty' came via the flower-shop and W Ewer. Ewer definitely told the police re: the 'J Ryan' in the cleaner's book, but neither Foot nor Woffinden take it any further than that. However, as I suggested, maybe the Ryan/Hanratty link also came via Ewer and his friendship with Anderson, but if so he must have kept quiet about it. The other obvious source is France. I think it must be significant that Acott never explained how the link was made, and it appears that he wasn't asked to do so in court.

Cheers,

Graham