a6 murder

[Graham]

I've just got in from a 50th birthday party so am a little, er, you know...

Hi Simon,

It occurred to me after my post re: Ewer and Anderson that it may not be beyond the realms of possibility that Ewer could even have met Hanratty at Anderson's shop. Apparently both JH and Ewer were fairly frequent visitors.
Maybe it was Ewer who recognised Hanratty going into the cleaners, and although he felt a great desire to shop Hanratty concocted Janet's surreal story to cover his arse. Pure speculation, obviously. But - quoting Sherrard for the umpteenth time - this case drips with coincidences.

Hi Limehouse,

Two things stood out for me particularly. In that first picture of Hanratty his eyes are very striking. They are, just as VS said, saucer like and staring. Secondly, that image just after the newpaper cutting featuring Alphon, is that a composit picture of the killer put together by various descriptions? If so, it looks exactly like Hanratty!

Agreed!

Funny re: what you say about dress code in 1961. The party I was at tonight was upstairs of a large pub, and I went out onto the balcony for a cough and a draw (as Sid James would put it). The weather was nice, and the large yard at the rear of the pub was packed. It struck me that about 80% of the males down there were dressed almost exactly alike - short-sleeved white or light-coloured shirt outside of a pair of jeans, and the inevitable No 1 hair-cut. I wore a long-sleeved shirt tucked into my jeans, because when I was at school (I left in 1963) to be caught with your shirt outside your trousers was a flogging offence, and I never forgot it.

Even funnier is that a mere 5 years after the photo you refer to was taken, there was a revolution in dress, and all of a sudden greys and beiges were out and colour was in! Even my dad took to wearing pastel-coloured shirts (but rarely without a tie) and he actually bought a pair of suede shoes in or around 1967. At that time I had hair half-way down my back, wore bell-bottom white jeans and corduroy shoes (I loved those!) and one of a half a dozen Paisley-pattern shirts I had. I looked the DB's (or so I thought - my dad said I looked like a big girl).

Cheers,

Graham

[PUPPYKINS]

Hi folks. Glad you liked the slideshow. I do have a copy of the Paul Foot book,Graham, but seeing as it would be a bit tricky trying to scan the Gregsten photo, I think I'll check if there are any pix of MG online which I can download. I'm pleased you liked my choice of music, Limehouse, and I agree with you Simon that "You Don't Know" was a far better number than "Walkin' Back To Happiness"!
Ian
PS As a Hanrattydidn'tdoitite, I do find it a bit disconcerting that JH's eyes in the first pic are very staring and saucer like!!!

[PUPPYKINS]

Hi again! I've just uploaded an improved version of the A6 vid., using a few pics I discovered on the web. Surprisingly few photos of Michael Gregsten funnily enough.
Ian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-x4nhjpVdw

[jimarilyn]

Hi again! I've just uploaded an improved version of the A6 vid., using a few pics I discovered on the web. Surprisingly few photos of Michael Gregsten funnily enough.
Ian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-x4nhjpVdw

Hi Ian,

Nice to see you back. I enjoyed your Youtube video very much. There's a small profile photo of Michael Gregsten in Jean Justice's book "Le Crime de la Route A6" which I will scan and post on here later. As for the Helen Shapiro song "You don't know" it is a very good song but personally speaking I slightly prefer "Walking back to happiness" which also got to number one.

Don't you just love the music from the late 50's and early 60's ?

Guess what was number 3 in the charts on the day of James Hanratty's execution ? ...............................another Helen Shapiro song ....called "Tell me what he said".
There's some seemingly very apt titles in that particular chart.

On the actual day of the murder #9 in the charts was Gary US Bond's "Quarter to three". I wonder if that was the exact time that Michael Gregsten was shot and killed. A 'sign' perhaps ??

http://www.everyhit.com/retros/index.php?page=rchart&y1=1962&m1=04&y2=1962&m2=04&sent=1&day1=1&day2=1

Great website ! A favourite of mine.


regards,
James

[PUPPYKINS]

Hi James. Glad you liked the vid! Yes I'm crazy about the music of the 60s and the late 50s: so much better than most of today's stuff.
I'll have to check out this site for myself, although I do get most of my info from the Guinness book of Top 40 Charts- well worth purchasing!
Regards,
Ian

[jimarilyn]

Hi Ian,

Nice to see you back. I enjoyed your Youtube video very much. There's a small profile photo of Michael Gregsten in Jean Justice's book "Le Crime de la Route A6" which I will scan and post on here later.

Hi Ian,

Here's that scanned copy of the MG photo from Jean Justice's book.
Excuse the rather grainy quality.

He reminds me of a famous golfer in that particular photo.

regards,
James

[PUPPYKINS]

Hi James. Thanks for that. I've not seen this photo before. Yes he does look a bit Nick Faldo-ish!
Best wishes
Ian

[Limehouse]

Good post, Limehouse.

JH was never anything other than a callous murderer to me - I do remember the A6 Case very well, and my dad was stopped in a police road-block when he was driving down to Luton. The police just asked the 'usual' questions.

Ponder this - Ewer and Louise Anderson knew each other, and Louise knew JH. Did she also know his alias of 'J Ryan'? Did JH say something to her about the murder, and did she, for whatever reason, pass this on to Ewer? She must have known that Janet Gregsten was his sister-in-law. Armed with this information, did Ewer concoct a story about the dry-cleaners to cover himself, and then inform the police about 'Ryan'? If he did, then it's understandable that he was careful not to mention the name Hanratty to the police, otherwise he'd almost certainly have been hauled in and could have come out of it badly.

Cheers,

Graham

Hi Graham,

Excellent speculation there. I have been re-reading Woffinden and he ponders for some time on how the police made the connection between J Ryan and Hanratty. The official version is that car hire papers from Ireland allowed them to make the connection but Woffinden blows this idea out of the water. He suggests it was a combination of Dixie France and Nudds. It was also interesting to read Louise Anderson's role in undermining Charlotte France's faith in Hanratty whilst they were waiting to be called as witnesses. It is suggested that she was being used by the police to paint a very different picture of Hanratty than was known by his other friends and his family. It is suggested she did this because she was being 'leaned on' because she had a house full of stolen goods. Woffinden describes how, whereever there was a gap in the evidence against Hanratty, 'helpful' people stepped up to 'fill in the gaps'. Most of these were police informers (such as a guy in jail who claimed Hanratty 'confessed' to him and of course, Nudds) or they were people who had reason to co-operate with the police.

Certainly, Hanratty was no saint, but the people queuing up to speak against him were not saintly either and several of them had enjoyed the fruits of Hanratty's labour as a housebreaker.

[Limehouse]

Some thoughts

Having had a few days holiday, as well as catching up with jobs in the house and the garden, I have been pre-occupied with thoughts about the A6 case.

Woffiden's research has revealed a great deal about the personality, activities and behaviour of Alphon. I think it is interesting to compare the behaviours of Hanratty and Alphon and so I have done so below. It does make you wonder which of them was a psychopath.

Hanratty was a thief who, by his own admission, broke into people's houses when they were out and took possessions of high value with no regard for the feelings of the occupants. His defence was that he only stole from people who 'could afford it' and who probably had insurance. To me this shows that he either did not care whether the items were personally treasured by the people he stole from, or he lacked the insight to realise that wealthy people have feelings too.

Despite his criminality, Hanratty was close to his family, held them in high regard and worried about the effect of his crimes on them. (This did not stop him walking away from a business he father had taken the trouble to set up with him, using his cashed-in pension). Hanratty's letters to his family reveal his deep love for them and his conversations with the police on the telephone prior to his arrest revealed his concern for his mother and the effect that being charged with the A6 crime would have on her. This concern and warmth towards his family throw doubt on the idea that Hanratty was a psychopath.

Hanratty found it easy to make friends. He was warm and generous towards his friends, including his girlfriends. It is true that he took appalling advantage of his friendship with Dixie France by being intimate with his young daughter. However, there is no suggestion that Hanratty forced himself on her and she was over the age of consent. However, this was a grave error on Hanratty's part. Nevertheless, Hanratty's relationships with women seem normal for a man of his age and for the habits of the time. Several of his girlfriends describe him as being a 'gentleman' towards them. Additionally, he made frequent use of prostitutes which shows that he knew how to get sex on a casual basis if he wanted it. These factors point to a man who was warm rather than cold towards people.

Alphon is a different character entirely. He was a self-styled, self-admitted Nazi. He sponged off his mother but seems to have shown little warmth towards her. He had difficulty making and keeping friends and did not seem to have a close relationship (sexual or otherwise) with either men or women. After his involvement with the A6 case, he frequently drew attention to himself by tormenting various people with nuisance telephone calls, including the Hanratty family. He is suspected of carrying out several worrying attacks on lone women in their own homes and in every respect conducted himself in a highly undesirable manner. Compared with Hanratty, Alphon was cold towards people and considred most people with contempt.

I am not sure whether I think Alphon was the murderer, but I am 98% certain Hanratty was not and have started to return to my original belief that Hanratty was innocent.

Two things have jumped out at me since re-reading Woffinden. When arrested, Hanratty willingly gave samples of hair, blood and saliva. What happened to these?

Whilst still quite young, Hanratty was diagnosed as being 'mentally defective'. It was suggested that, had Hanratty pleaded guilty but not criminally responsible for his actions due to diminished responsibility, this would have been accepted as a plea and he would not have been sentenced to hang. Yet Hanratty was so convinced that he would not be convicted, he had so much faith in his own innocence that he wnet right on with the trial, taking the stand, being cross-examined etc. Doesn't this tell us something? wouldn't a guilty man with his background have resorted to a 'diminished responsibility' plea (compare Hanratty's behaviour with that of Peter Sutcliffe, who claimed to have been mentally ill so that he could be confind to a hospital rather than a prison).

Any thoughts?

[Rob63]

Nice post Limehouse, a bit of a hurdle I have with JH is his last letter to his brother. Discuss.....

[Limehouse]

Hi Rob,

Which bit of the letter do you mean? I don't think he inciminates himself at any point. There is one bit where he writes:

I would like you to try and clear my name of this crime. Someone, somewhere is responsible for this crime and one day they will venture again and then the truth will come out, and then Mick that will be the chance for you to step in. I feel the poilice will try to hush it all up if they get the chance.

What do you think he meant by that? Did he think the killer would strike again and the police would then try to make it look like an unrelated crime? Or did he mean someone would crack and reveal the truth? It certainly does not sound to me like a man who is writing a letter with the intention of making people think he was innocent. He seems convinced that if his brother keeps digging, the truth will be found out but certainly not with the help of the police.

Why is this last letter a hurdle for you? Do you mean it makes you think Hanratty was gulity or do you mean it's a hard letter to read emotionally?

[Rob63]

It makes me think it is a cry for help even though he knows he`s going to swing. If he was innocent why inflict such a crusade upon his brother.

[Limehouse]

I don't think Hanratty was fully aware just what a crusade it would be. He was convinced that the truth would come out. He was totally shocked that the charges against him stuck - all the way to the gallows. If he was innocent, it is understandable he would want his name cleared, if only for the sake of his family.

There are, I admit, difficulties with the case that do not go in Hanratty's favour. For example, Valerie Storie is convinced he is the man who killed Gregsten and raped her. Despite her certainty, the initial description of the killer did not fit Hanratty. Hanratty changed his alibi - but even having foolishly done that there are people alive today who will testify that he was in Liverpool and in Rhyl on the dates he said he was in those places. If Hanratty had anything to do with this crime, I am 98% certain he did not carry it out as a random act.

[richardnunweek]

Hello all.
The Hanratty case is a fascinating one, and its because of that, this thread is such a long serving one, however unlike the Ripper case, we have a conviction, one James Hanratty.
Was he the gunman, that is the 64 dollar question?
He was convicted under British law, and had an appeal squashed, but dispite that remained an enigma for decades, that is until modern forensic detection , ie D.N.A,proved almost conclusively that he was infact, the man that was guilty.
Why on earth should we continue to discuss a proven case, and like it or not, in law, it is a proven case?
Just because a man in the condemmed cell, pleans sincerity to one and all, does not automatically, rate innocence, self preservation outweighs concious, when death is forthcoming.
Valerie knows full well that Hanratty was the man that night , that ruined so many lives, so that should be the final solution.
Regards Richard.

[Limehouse]

Hi Richard,

Welcome to the debate! I wish it was as simple as you describe but unfortunately it is not. The DNA evidence is by no means final (as the Hanratty DNA thread debates). I don't really want to get into a scientific debate about the reliability of the DNA method used, but what I will say is that there is a very good chance that the materials tested for Hanratty's DNA were contaminated by other articles of clothing and possible a vial of fluid washed from Hanratty's trousers.

There is so much more to this case than a man who pleads his innocence. For a start, he was not the first suspect and he did not fit the first description of the killer issued by the police (whereas the first suspect did). There was a huge amount of evidence witheld from the defence and thus from the jury and in no way, guilty or innocent, did Hanratty receive a fair trial.