a6 murder

[richardnunweek]

Hi James,
Only one person living can tie up all the puzzles of this case that being Valerie, of course the poor woman would never comment on the scene now some 48 years on, but it would be helpful in determining the actual events as they unfolded, and stop all this speculating.
If the gunman opened fire at MG, When the victim was in the act of passing over the duffle bag, then clearly both hands would not have ended up clutching the steering wheel, unless.
a] They were placed there,
b] Mike reached over with his left hand on the bag , and the right one on the wheel, and the impact of the shots sent, his left hand back to the wheel.
All complicated stuff, but obviously both hands got fixed on the wheel somehow.
I would say either a, or b. was the answer.
The whole crux of the matter , is not unlike the Ripper murders , we are guilty of suspecting all kinds of jiggery/P, when a simple explanation is obviously present.
Regards Richard.

[Graham]

This is an aspect of Valerie's evidence that puzzled me for a long time.

Chances are that the gunman demanded Mike to pass the duffel-bag to him. Mike, seriously angry and doubtlessly not a little scared, picked up the bag and swung it over Valerie's head for the gunman to take, and let it go. He, Mike, then turned around, maybe with a snort of disgust, and grabbed the wheel with both hands, at which point the gunman fired. I don't think that Mike made an attempt to use the duffel bag as a weapon against the gunman, because that would really have been rather pointless, and I don't think the sequence of events could have happened so quickly as Paul Foot suggests.

Cheers,

Graham

[jimarilyn]

This is an aspect of Valerie's evidence that puzzled me for a long time.

Chances are that the gunman demanded Mike to pass the duffel-bag to him. Mike, seriously angry and doubtlessly not a little scared, picked up the bag and swung it over Valerie's head for the gunman to take, and let it go. He, Mike, then turned around, maybe with a snort of disgust, and grabbed the wheel with both hands, at which point the gunman fired. I don't think that Mike made an attempt to use the duffel bag as a weapon against the gunman, because that would really have been rather pointless, and I don't think the sequence of events could have happened so quickly as Paul Foot suggests.

Cheers,

Graham

This scenario however, Graham, conflicts with Valerie Storie's evidence in court. Describing this incident she said...

"Somehow or other the duffle bag containing the washing had got into the front of the car. I cannot remember at exactly what stage it was moved from the back into the front, but it was done by Mike. He turned to Mike and said, 'Give me that bag up.' Mike picked the bag up with both hands, turned towards the centre of the car, that is to his left, and just as he was lifting it over the back of the seat, the man fired two shots in very quick succession at Mike's head."

regards,
James

[larue]

Hi Larue,
Just to clarify things a little am I correct in assuming that the photographer's bag (?) is where I've pointed to in the picture below ? The object I was referring to is marked with a few question marks.
regards,
James

hi James

i have tracked down my original copy of this picture, it is in my hardbacked version of Keith Simpson's 'Forty Years Of Murder' and your mystery object is'nt in that one either... it is cropped off. the RAC box is just visible though. no wonder i could'nt figure what you were referring too!

[larue]

A more significant effect by far would be that VS eyes would have acclimitised to the low light levels and the passing headlights would be too BRIGHT rather than not bright enough.
KR,
Vic.

too bright for what Vic?

[Victor]

too bright for what Vic?

Too bright to focus properly. Dazzling.

[jimarilyn]

Sorry Victor but I don't buy that for one minute. The lay-by is several feet higher than the road. Not to mention the grassy mound in between.

[Victor]

Have you ever tried sitting in a layby in a dark country lane at night? When a car comes along the road and shines the headlights towards you then you are momentarily blinded because it's too bright. This isn't something I've invented it's night-vision and happens to most people with eyesight.

Anyway, Tony should be able to confirm when he gets his testing head back on.


edit: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision (Biological Night Vision section)

[Limehouse]

I am not so sure it would have been that dark by the time they got to the lay-by. Wasn't it about 3.30am by then? Remember, this was August. It gets light about 4am at that time of year so I reckon it was far from pitch black.

[larue]

Too bright to focus properly. Dazzling.

[blast!!!! that's another post disappeared into the ether. does anyone else have this trouble???]

i'll try again...


hi Vic

given the relative position of the death car to any passing vehicle, i doubt that the passing vehicle's headlights could have shone directly into the death car.

anyways, if ms storie was dazzled and unfocussed by another vehicle's headlights, how could she have seen her assailan't eyes properly?

[larue]

Have you ever tried sitting in a layby in a dark country lane at night?

yes, many times, but not necessarily for the same reason as you

When a car comes along the road and shines the headlights towards you then you are momentarily blinded because it's too bright.

only if you look right at 'em, if you look away... no problemo

Anyway, Tony should be able to confirm when he gets his testing head back on.

i have already tried this. could not tell what color my wife's eyes were, and last night in a well lit tesco parking lot, looking in the rear view mirror, i could not tell what color my eyes are!!!!!

i will be very interested to read Tony's result.

[larue]

I am not so sure it would have been that dark by the time they got to the lay-by. Wasn't it about 3.30am by then? Remember, this was August. It gets light about 4am at that time of year so I reckon it was far from pitch black.

hi Limehouse

this is a verrrrry interesting point. but then again, if is was light enough for ms storie to see her assailant, why should she mention a passing car?

[reg1965]

hi Limehouse

this is a verrrrry interesting point. but then again, if is was light enough for ms storie to see her assailant, why should she mention a passing car?

"They say the darkest hour is right before the dawn."

Bob Dylan
Meet Me In The Morning
from Blood On The Tracks (1975)

[Limehouse]

"They say the darkest hour is right before the dawn."

Bob Dylan
Meet Me In The Morning
from Blood On The Tracks (1975)

Also:

"And the darkest hour is just before dawn"
Dedicated to the One I Love
Mamas & Papas

[jimarilyn]

"They say the darkest hour is right before the dawn."

Bob Dylan
Meet Me In The Morning
from Blood On The Tracks (1975)

Hi Reg,

Great album from a true musical genius. The man continues to amaze.

Hope the Gooners turn Man Urinal over next Tuesday and go on to win the Final, maybe get revenge for that 2006 Final.



regards,
James