a6 murder

[Tony]

Leonard Millers Fantastic Tall Tales

A veritable cornucopia of porkies in print from his magnum opus Shadows of Deadman's Hill

Issue 1 (of an occasional series)

page 137

(my italics)

Not so Lennie boy.

This was lifted, unreferenced, from Woffinden (1997. p115) and was actually what Mr Luxemburg had described of Hanratty when they were in the same van on the way to the second parade.

Not so interesting? This is just a mere taster of things to come...Look out for Issue 2 of this fascinating series soon.

Hey, Reg,

I know this post of yours has just been criticised by Vic and Graham; although I think Graham went a little over the top. I have also noticed Jimarilyn has been missing for some time but I wouldn’t put that down to anyone on here.
I also am concerned that we have not heard from Steve and even though he has the opposite view from me I am sure he is eloquent enough to stand up for himself and I doubt if anybody would put him off contributing. Although if he does read this I am sure we would all be grateful to learn that he is OK.

But, back to your post about the van/ID parade.

I am on the same side as you as you well know but I find it difficult to believe that the members of the ID parade travelled in the same van as Hanratty. The price of petrol was a lot cheaper in those days and the police are never stuck for vehicles.
Can you imagine the conversations in that van? Even on that brief (?) journey opinions would have been formed as to guilt or innocence by the other men. I just don’t believe either the prosecution or defence would allow ID parade members to have access to/contact with the prisoner. I strongly suspect that the ID members would be there before Hanratty and would have been lined up and then Hanratty would have joined them and invited to stand wherever he wanted.

I have just read page 115 in Woffinden’s book and it does sound authentic but so does the extract in Miller’s. I have little time for the Miller book as you know but the way he describes it is how I would assume it happened.

Now I have a feeling that Mr Luxemburg’s description of the parade may be on tape. Anybody got any help in this regard?

Reg, I await issue two with anticipation.

Tony.

[Tony]

Hi Graham,

I must say I think your comment on Reg's post is very unfair and uncalled for. It is also a little on the condescending side your last statement. Like everyone else on this thread he has every right to express his opinion about Lennie Miller and his distasteful work of fiction.

It is patently clear that Reg along with the likes of yourself, Tony, PLA, JamesDean, PC49, Dupplin Muir, Larue, Limehouse, Rigby (wish he'd post more), Caz, Puppykins and your very good friend Steve are all very intelligent people and very knowledgable about this intriguing and controversial case. I've read Miller's book and I definitely know where Reg is coming from.

As for Steve not posting (or even logging in) for almost six full weeks, which is very uncharacteristic of him I feel one of the following must be the situation........

1) He's lost complete interest in the case (hard to believe, given his huge contribution to this thread).
2) He's following the thread without logging in (unlikely).
3) He no longer has access to a computer.
4) He's unwell.

I sincerely hope it's not the 4th one.



regards,

James

Hello James,

Now isn’t that spooky yet again?

I’m typing a post saying we haven’t heard from you for some time; I post at 10.56 and when I go back to the thread you have posted 11 minutes earlier.

Nice to have you back, Sir.

Tony.

[PC49]

Valid point, Tony.
In my younger days, I worked opposite a main bridewell and myself and other colleagues were sometimes called upon to make up the numbers in i.d. parades (we were given the princely sum of 25p + a cup of tea!) - Without exception, the police suspect was always brought into the room/yard after we had all assembled, and then allowed to stand wherever he wished in the line.
On a lighter note, there was one occasion when one of my close colleagues was actually selected by the alleged victim of a crime from the line-up. He had a rock solid alibi (he was in our building at the time of the offence), but did spend an uncomfortable time being questioned, whilst we all returned to work!
On a more serious note, that little episode always made me that little bit more wary of taking part in such parades afterwards. I have never had total faith in them ever since, I'm afraid.
Incidentally, I don't blame Reg (and others) for having a pop at Miller's comic capers!
Regards,
PC49

[jimarilyn]

Hello James,

Now isn’t that spooky yet again?

I’m typing a post saying we haven’t heard from you for some time; I post at 10.56 and when I go back to the thread you have posted 11 minutes earlier.

Nice to have you back, Sir.

Tony.

Good eveniing Tony,

Snap. Yes it is spooky, a bit like us posting at exactly the same minute about a week or so ago.

Re. Anthony Luxemburg, you're absolutely right, the on film interview with him is contained within Bob Woffinden's 1992 Channel 4 documentary "Hanratty, The Mystery of Deadman's Hill".

About 3 or 4 years ago I bought a Bush DVD recorder from Argos for about £150. Not so long ago I transferred my VHS tape of this documentary (it was the updated 1996 version) onto DVD. If I knew how to do it I would upload it onto YouTube for others to view.

In the meantime I'll transcribe the Anthony Luxemburg (did he have a brother called Ray D.O. ?) interview and post it on here later on this evening.

regards,

James

[Tony]

Valid point, Tony.
In my younger days, I worked opposite a main bridewell and myself and other colleagues were sometimes called upon to make up the numbers in i.d. parades (we were given the princely sum of 25p + a cup of tea!) - Without exception, the police suspect was always brought into the room/yard after we had all assembled, and then allowed to stand wherever he wished in the line.
On a lighter note, there was one occasion when one of my close colleagues was actually selected by the alleged victim of a crime from the line-up. He had a rock solid alibi (he was in our building at the time of the offence), but did spend an uncomfortable time being questioned, whilst we all returned to work!
On a more serious note, that little episode always made me that little bit more wary of taking part in such parades afterwards. I have never had total faith in them ever since, I'm afraid.
Incidentally, I don't blame Reg (and others) for having a pop at Miller's comic capers!
Regards,
PC49

Good evening PC49,

If you are interested, and you probably aren’t, have a look at my post 1340 on page 134 about my mate’s experience of being on an ID parade in Manchester.

Tony.

[Tony]

Good eveniing Tony,

Snap. Yes it is spooky, a bit like us posting at exactly the same minute about a week or so ago.

Re. Anthony Luxemburg, you're absolutely right, the on film interview with him is contained within Bob Woffinden's 1992 Channel 4 documentary "Hanratty, The Mystery of Deadman's Hill".

About 3 or 4 years ago I bought a Bush DVD recorder from Argos for about £150. Not so long ago I transferred my VHS tape of this documentary (it was the updated 1996 version) onto DVD. If I knew how to do it I would upload it onto YouTube for others to view.

In the meantime I'll transcribe the Anthony Luxemburg (did he have a brother called Ray D.O. ?) interview and post it on here later on this evening.

regards,

James

James,

Wow two posts in no time at all and another one promised for our enjoyment for later this evening.

The only reason I’m on here at this time is that Man Urinal are on the tele and I daren’t watch.

Funny you should enquire about Mr Luxemburg’s possible brother Ray D O. I think I have some recollection of this man but can not recall it at the moment. Should it eventually come to me I will report back to you immediately.

Tony.

[PC49]

Good evening PC49,

If you are interested, and you probably aren’t, have a look at my post 1340 on page 134 about my mate’s experience of being on an ID parade in Manchester.

Tony.

Cheers Tony,
I've just read that post. I can understand your pal's feelings, as my own friend was clearly upset by his experience and he wasn't investigated in so much depth.
All the best.

[jimarilyn]

Cheers Tony,
I've just read that post. I can understand your pal's feelings, as my own friend was clearly upset by his experience and he wasn't investigated in so much depth.
All the best.

Hi PC49,

No wonder Michael Clark emigrated in 1965 after his experience at the hands of VS.

regards,

James

[jimarilyn]

The only reason I’m on here at this time is that Man Urinal are on the tele and I daren’t watch.

Hi Tony,

Nice swan.

regards,

James

[Graham]

Guys,

I don't think I went over the top at all with my criticism of Reg's post. I don't think much of Miller's book, either, as I've stated before, but I wouldn't slag him off because his opinion may be different to mine (which it isn't).

Criticism without sinking to unnecessary invective ought to be the way we conduct ourselves on this thread - which, unless I misread the numbers, is the most visited thread on this entire website.

Cheers,

Graham

[jimarilyn]

Transcription of Antony Luxemburg's TV interview

In the meantime I'll transcribe the Anthony Luxemburg (did he have a brother called Ray D.O. ?) interview and post it on here later on this evening.regards,James

As promised, here's what Antony (sorry for misspelling it as Anthony earlier) Luxemburg had to say in Bob Woffinden's 1992 documentary...

[jimarilyn]

Transcription of Antony Luxemburg's TV interview

In the meantime I'll transcribe the Anthony Luxemburg (did he have a brother called Ray D.O. ?) interview and post it on here later on this evening.regards,

James

As promised, here's what Antony (sorry for misspelling it as Anthony earlier) Luxemburg had to say in Bob Woffinden's 1992 documentary. It came in three segments......

"We stood in a line and Hanratty was brought in and he was told in our hearing that he could stand where he wanted to in the line, and he had this extraordinary tension, the most tense human being I've ever seen in my life. It was absolutely electrifying. He had this very vivid coloured hair, which was very orangey, which was obviously dyed."

"Valerie Storie was brought in, on like a trolley bed with a slightly sloping back and then she was wheeled up and down and looked at everybody over and over again."

"And although impressions can be false, my feeling was that she took 15 or 20 minutes before she identified him. And that's about as much as I can remember...and she too was a very tense human being, which is pretty understandable".


regards,
James

PS. Don't know how post 2411 got there. These laptops have a life of their own sometimes !

[jimarilyn]

Food for thought

Hi All,

Det Sgt Arthur Kilner and Det Constable Anthony Dean went to the Alexandra Court Hotel on the evening of Sunday August 27th 1961 to interview Peter Louis Alphon (aka Frederick Durrant) because of his suspicious and strange behaviour there over the previous 5 days. After further questioning of him later that same evening, they discovered (amongst other things) at the bottom of his suitcase a recent copy of the Daily Express. Splashed across it's front page was a story about the A6 murder.

Kilner and Dean discovered from Alphon that he had spent August 19th and 20th sleeping rough under Southend Pier. The following day (Monday 21st) he had returned to London for a few hours to attend a greyhound meeting and then went back to Southend and spent another night under the pier.

This tallies well with what the gunman is alleged to have said to Mike Gregsten and Valerie Storie in the cornfield. In Valerie's own words...."He said he had been living rough for two days. He said he had been woken up the previous morning wet through because it had been raining."



regards,
James


PS. Excuse my hogging of the last few posts

[Tony]

Anybody know anything about this?

Hello everyone,

Can anybody clear up the following for me please?

It was posted on here about five or six weeks ago (and I can’t remember who by who) that shortly before Janet Gregston’s death she contacted Paul Foot to arrange a meeting with him. Now this can only have been about the A6 case. She supposedly contacted Paul Foot after she herself had been contacted by Peter Alphon who himself wished to discuss the case with her; but in Ireland. Apparently Foot and Alphon met in Ireland but Janet did not attend the meeting.

Now can the person who posted this information let us know the source of the information or can it be dismissed as nonsense.

If true it is fascinating and I would like to hear more.

Tony.

[reg1965]

Leonard Millers Fantastic Tall Tales

A veritable cornucopia of porkies in print from his magnum opus Shadows of Deadman's Hill

Issue 2 (of an occasional series)

page 55

Hanratty said that the woman who ran the guesthouse was "Middle-aged, about fifty, average built. She wore glasses and had greyish hair." In fact Grace Jones had fair hair, not grey. She did not normally wear glasses (in the photograph of her outside the court in Bedford used in Foot's book she is not wearing glasses). She was not of average build but actually "rather small. No more than 5' 2" " (PF, 224). Therefore Hanratty's description was 75% wrong. He was wrong about the colour of the woman's hair, wrong about her wearing glasses and wrong about her size. He was only right about her being middle-aged, an aspect of boarding house proprietors which is hardly very unusual.

(my italics)

Len's at it again.

Len plainly said she did wear glasses and she was wearing them when she answered the door to Hanratty.
Hanratty's description of her hair being fair equates ok with grey. It was not as if Hanratty had said her hair was light brown or some such nonsense.
Hanratty didn't say anything about height only build which includes depth and width as well as height so I don't see anything particularly wrong here as he was not a particularly tall man himself. But lets say that Hanratty was wrong.

That makes Hanratty 75% right. Compare this to Valerie Storie's original description, photofit and the picking out of a man who possibly looked like Alphon which was 100% wrong when compared to a description of Hanratty.

A bit more interesting eh?
...Look out for Issue 3 of this fascinating series soon.