a6 murder

[reg1965]

Johnl
Never mind name calling with James over the JFK thread, you can't even spell pterodactyl and had to be put right by Sam Flynn as the arrogant tw*t we all know that you are.
I am watching you too, boyo!
Reg

[reg1965]

jimarilyn and reg
perhaps you could both tell me why the number of posters and frequency of posts on this thread has plummeted, bearing in mind that my posts are few and far between
Think about it!!!!!!
johnl

The decline began with your so called first and only post on the 23rd August, coincedently the 47th anniversary of the A6 murder. Frequency had just started to pick up again recently but the bad smell that lingers when you are around will kill that off again.

[jimarilyn]

jimarilyn and reg
perhaps you could both tell me why the number of posters and frequency of posts on this thread has plummeted, bearing in mind that my posts are few and far between
Think about it!!!!!!
johnl

Six exclamation marks, wow ! I hope you're not a serial killer johnl and that each exclamation mark doesn't represent an A6 thread victim.

regards,


James

[Limehouse]

What on earth has been going on on this thread today? We used to be assured of a polite and reasoned debate on here. Let's get back to the friendly discourse that is usually enjoyed and ignore those who invade the thread only to cause mischief.

[jimarilyn]

What on earth has been going on on this thread today? We used to be assured of a polite and reasoned debate on here. Let's get back to the friendly discourse that is usually enjoyed and ignore those who invade the thread only to cause mischief.

Well said Limehouse. I apologise for allowing myself to rise to johnl's calculated bait.

regards,
James

[Tony]

What on earth has been going on on this thread today? We used to be assured of a polite and reasoned debate on here. Let's get back to the friendly discourse that is usually enjoyed and ignore those who invade the thread only to cause mischief.

Hello Limehouse,

I was just about to post the following message when I noticed another post had arrived and it was from your very good self. The post below is exactly as I typed it before I read yours. Honestly.

Well boys,

Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the last we here from PC49 after this afternoon, which is a pity.

According to my profile on here I post 1.36 times per day and I do think I am a little bit obsessed with this subject and this forum. On the other hand Johnl, far from your posts being few and far between your public profile says you post 1.74 times per day.

Let’s have some more input from the likes of PLA, Victor, James Dean, Larue, Caz and my own personal favourite Limehouse. I know I’ve missed out plenty of you and I’m sorry.
Oh dare I mention Puppykins? And what on earth has happened to Steve does anyone know? I know he is on totally the opposite side to me but I hope he is keeping well. Maybe he is unable to post at the moment as he is considering his position and will shortly announce he is back on our side of the fence. Don’t let him beat you to it Graham.

Let’s keep it serious but fun, eh lads. We don’t want to end up on the valium just yet.

Tony.

[reg1965]

....I have read the books that you so kindly gave me and I have made a few notes.
I'm surprised that the most telling sentence in either book has never been discussed- it's the statement made by McNally to Gillbanks " If Hanratty does not open up, why should I?" Comments please....

This is no where near being the most telling sentence in either of the books, because it does not in anyway undermine the fact that Hanratty was in a Liverpool sweetshop around 5pm on 22nd August 1961. All McNally suggests by this is that if Hanratty doesn't give the names of the fences then why should he. Big deal. He was in Rhyl 3 hours later anyway.

[reg1965]

Hello Limehouse,

I was just about to post the following message when I noticed another post had arrived and it was from your very good self. The post below is exactly as I typed it before I read yours. Honestly.

Well boys,

Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the last we here from PC49 after this afternoon, which is a pity.

According to my profile on here I post 1.36 times per day and I do think I am a little bit obsessed with this subject and this forum. On the other hand Johnl, far from your posts being few and far between your public profile says you post 1.74 times per day.

Let’s have some more input from the likes of PLA, Victor, James Dean, Larue, Caz and my own personal favourite Limehouse. I know I’ve missed out plenty of you and I’m sorry.
Oh dare I mention Puppykins? And what on earth has happened to Steve does anyone know? I know he is on totally the opposite side to me but I hope he is keeping well. Maybe he is unable to post at the moment as he is considering his position and will shortly announce he is back on our side of the fence. Don’t let him beat you to it Graham.

Let’s keep it serious but fun, eh lads. We don’t want to end up on the valium just yet.

Tony.

Hi Tony
Perhaps if we all had a whip round and bought johnl a one way ticket elsewhere then this thread may return to its former glory. All of the current problems stem from him.
Reg

[Tony]

This is no where near being the most telling sentence in either of the books, because it does not in anyway undermine the fact that Hanratty was in a Liverpool sweetshop around 5pm on 22nd August 1961. All McNally suggests by this is that if Hanratty doesn't give the names of the fences then why should he. Big deal. He was in Rhyl 3 hours later anyway.

Hi Reg,

Yes I agree with that. Even Mr Swanwick thought that Mrs Dinwoodie was an impressive witness and as he had already placed Hanratty in London on the 21st he virtually conceded that Hanratty was seen by Mrs Dinwoodie at around 5.00 Pm in Liverpool on the afternoon of the murder. I’ve not got any literature with me at the moment but didn’t he at one point suggest that JH had flown back from Liverpool to carry out the crime?

A bit more on the extension of the Liverpool alibi that is Rhyl (Not a change of alibi) this from Trip Atlas:

“By 1968, the A6 Committee had found six substantial witnesses to show Hanratty ''had'' in fact been to Rhyl. They had also found a fairground worker called Terry Evans who admitted to letting Hanratty stay at his house early in 1961, and to fencing a stolen watch for him. Another man, Trevor Dutton, had just made a payment into his bank account, and consequently his bank book was stamped with the correct date, 23 August, when minutes later he was approached by a man with a cockney accent in a smart suit, trying to sell a gold watch.
The problem here for the conviction was that there were now six witnesses who could positively say they had seen or spoken to Hanratty on the 23rd, and what is more, the day in question was the only day that all six were in Rhyl at the same time.”

Tony.

[jimarilyn]

Hi Reg

Yes I agree with that. Even Mr Swanwick thought that Mrs Dinwoodie was an impressive witness and as he had already placed Hanratty in London on the 21st he virtually conceded that Hanratty was seen by Mrs Dinwoodie at around 5.00 Pm in Liverpool on the afternoon of the murder. I’ve not got any literature with me at the moment but didn’t he at one point suggest that JH had flown back from Liverpool to carry out the crime?

Good evening Tony,

It seems like Mr Swanwick was a very suggestive man.

Not only did Swanwick suggest that, he also suggested at one point that Hanratty dashed up to Liverpool on the Monday (despite concrete proof of Hanratty being in London) where he had the sweetshop encounter with Mrs Dinwoodie and then dashed back down to London in the evening in time to sign in at the Vienna. He then suggested that Hanratty made a second trip up to Liverpool sometime on the Thursday (24th) in time for him to send the 8.40pm telegram from Lime Street to the Frances (but signing it as Mr P Ryan, Imperial Hotel, Russell Square, London). Unbelievable.

regards,

James

[PC49]

Many thanks to Limehouse, Tony, Reg1965, and jimarilyn for your kind welcoming messages - much appreciated.
I've just composed a whole list of points and questions, and promptly lost the lot!!!
Will retrieve what I can, and get back asap this week.
I just hope that I havn't unwittingly stirred up a hornet's nest, going by the comments to/from johnl?
I assume the forum is usually conducted courteously whilst having regard for every individual's right of expression. Anyway I look forward to much informed discussion on this most enigmatic case.
Regards to all.

[Tony]

Many thanks to Limehouse, Tony, Reg1965, and jimarilyn for your kind welcoming messages - much appreciated.
I've just composed a whole list of points and questions, and promptly lost the lot!!!
Will retrieve what I can, and get back asap this week.
I just hope that I havn't unwittingly stirred up a hornet's nest, going by the comments to/from johnl?
I assume the forum is usually conducted courteously whilst having regard for every individual's right of expression. Anyway I look forward to much informed discussion on this most enigmatic case.
Regards to all.

Good evening PC49,

On behalf of all can I thank you most sincerely for staying with us?

Please do not think of this afternoon as typical. My good friends Limehouse and Caz, I am sure, will look after you.
Please enjoy this forum. On here you will find the most informed people anywhere regarding this fascinating case.
Not one of us was in that Morris Minor that night but we are all entitled to a free discussion about that night and subsequent events without anybody resorting to questionable personal comments.

I hope this has not upset anyone.

Tony.

[PC49]

Cheers Tony - that's fine, and I appreciate your comments.
I do look forward to informed and enlightening discussion from members of the forum.
All the best.

[P.L.A]

Bullets

Hi

I see there have been a few postings about the two bullets that killed Gregsten.

My memory isn’t all that it used to be, but I seem to recall that they were found in the driver’s side foot well of the car.

I think this detail was given by DCI Oliver, the case ballistics officer, at the Bedford trial.

Short of the trial transcript, if anybody could get to Bedford Library and read the Bedford Times contemporary reporting of the trial, they would be able to confirm this or otherwise. Apart from saying that the defendant was a coalman, this reporting is in a league of it’s own.

The only thing I have at hand is the 1975 Home Office publication, “The Case of James Hanratty” (Hawser). It says “…….the fact that altogether nine bullets were recovered from the scene, the car and Miss Storie’s body…………”

Peter.

[P.L.A]

Nice Jim

Hi

Just had a quick re-read of The Case of James Hanratty (Hawser), sad I know, but it keeps me off the streets.

“………….In March 1958 he was sentenced to three years corrective training. He committed a number of serious disciplinary offences and attempted to escape several times. He was eventually removed from a training prison to Manchester Prison as a recalcitrant. As a result he forfeited all his normal remission – something which rarely occurs.

“………Evidence was given by the prosecution that in the three years 1959 – 61 over 1300 persons had been sentenced to three years corrective training, and only five of these (including Hanratty) served the full term.

We will all have our own ideas about the significance of five out of 1300, but this lines up with the Sunday Times December 1966 feature on the case.

Peter.