a6 murder

[Tony]

Afternoon ,Tony. This was on the documentary "Hanratty-The Whole Truth," shown in 2002 after the results of the DNA tests were made public.

Well Ian,

It has got me baffled. I’ve never heard of this RAF man and I might have been away when the documentary was on. But can you help me with the circumstances. Who was Neeedham?
When and why was JH in the company of an RAF policeman and when did Mr Needham reveal this confession?
Was it after Jean Justice’s book, was it after Lord Russell’s or Foot’s or Woffinden’s?

Surely such a statement by a policeman such as this would have been seized on by the press.

I assume it must have come out post Foot and Woffinden because neither mentions it.

Help me out here mate.

Tony.

[jimarilyn]

Hello Folks. I've just been watching a clip from the documentary "Hanratty- The Whole Truth." As a believer in Hanratty's innocence [well a 90% believer!], the comments made by the former RAF policeman John Needham have me puzzled. He claims that Hanratty confessed to him that he was indeed guilty of the A6 killing,but I don't see how this squares with Hanratty's later protestations of innocence [unless Mr Needham is a blatant liar].

Ian Strange [and no more Puppykins jokes please!]

Hi Ian,

Welcome to the A6 murder thread. Not having seen this documentary, I cannot comment on it. I was wondering if there's any chance you can transcribe what Mr Needham had to say, it would be much appreciated by all who've never seen this doc. That's the first mention of his name I've ever heard, which seems a bit peculiar to say the least.


regards,

James

[PUPPYKINS]

Hi folks. I can certainly transcribe the relevant part of the documentary for you to read and make up your own minds. Will do so this evening.
Ian

[Tony]

Bedtime with Basil

Just a little follow up to post 2240.

Imagine Basil under the eiderdown in bed with Mrs A the night after the trial concluded if you can.

“Have you had a nice day love?”

“Yes dear the trial’s over and the jury found Jimmy guilty. Do you know I never thought they would. The betting odds in the corridors outside the court were 20-1 against a conviction. I got Oxo to stick me a fiver on so we might go away this weekend. Even old Gorman looked shocked and hesitated before putting his black cap on.”

“Well it was Jimmy wasn’t it Basil?”

“Well it might have been but I did have to rely on a few dodgy tactics. You know, like getting that out and out liar Nudds to change his statement to incriminate Jimmy and then Dixie was persuaded to come up with a pearl about the back seat of the bus and that’s where the gun was found.”

“I thought that was a bit strange you know, Basil. I mean leaving the gun on the bus? He might as well have left it in the car.

“Yes it’s all a bit strange, love.
And I don’t want to even talk to you about the cartridges being found in Jimmy’s room 16 days after he left. But I did manage to get Louise Anderson to say she thought Jimmy was a monster and had lost a pair of black gloves just before the murder. Did I tell you the murderer wore a pair of black gloves? Brillliant piece of detective work that.

“Yes Basil but you told me that Jimmy never wore gloves. Did that Mr Alphon have a pair of gloves?”

“I don’t know love he never bloody well told me where his suitcase was kept.
And you know that bloody Sherrard kept asking me very awkward questions like: was there anything to connect Jimmy to the car? and I had to say “No”, Did Jimmy’s history fit the gunman again I had to say “No”. And this kept going on and on and on. At one point I thought it was me on trial, love.
Oh I forgot to tell you we did get one really good witness late on just when things were looking to be going Jimmy’s way. Yes a bloke called Langdale was up on some charge and was on remand with Jimmy; well this Langdale only comes out with this little belter: He says that Jimmy confessed to him in the prison grounds.”

“Oh and do you believe him, Basil?”

“Well not really love but maybe the jury did. I must have a word with the judge when his case comes to trial.”

“And what happens next, Basil?”

“Well love I’m afraid that Jimmy’s got an appointment with the hangman in three weeks and I can’t wait. When he’s gone, well he’s gone and that will be the end of the matter and in six months this case will be forgotten.”

“And are you sure that Mr Alphon didn’t do it?”

“Well if he did he’d be well advised to keep his mouth shut and keep out of the public eye. But I can’t help thinking that there is something funny about him. I don’t like him. I hope he doesn’t cause any trouble. Pity Valerie didn’t pick him out on that first ID parade though”

“Good night love.”

“Sweet dreams, Basil.”

“Yes I think so, love.”



Tony.

[PUPPYKINS]

Hello folks. Here is the transcribed interview in full:


“I was the duty NCO in the Royal Air Force police stationed at Halton in Buckinghamshire and I went on duty this particular day and found there was a civilian in the back passage having a cigarette and a cup of coffee and I was told that this was Hanratty and that he’d been to the local hospital for an ID parade to pick him out as a possible suspect in the A6 murder, and I was to look after him. So I was standing out the back and we were having coffee and just chatting in general and I just casually said to him, as part of the conversation, “How do you think you stand?” and quite casually he said to me “They know I did it. I know I did it, but I don’t think that they can prove that I did it,” and he was quite casual about it. Wasn’t cocky, bombastic or anything. He just sincerely believed that he would walk."
John Needham, former RAF policeman interviewed for "Hanratty- The Whole Truth," shown on channel 4 in 2002.

It is all a bit strange. There's no reference to this chap in any of the books I've read about the case. It kind of makes you wonder. Is he completely trustworthy...or a lying bastard?! I don't see that he stands to gain anything by lying, but who knows?

[Graham]

I've seen that documentary, and dismiss Needham's statement as follows:

1] Hanratty never smoked

2] A man under suspicion of murder, attempted murder and rape would be under permanent guard and watch and almost certainly not be allowed to speak to anyone, RAF policeman or not.

Maybe Needham met a plains-clothes copper who assured him that the police had got the right man, and so forth.

And I speak as a Jimdiditite!

Cheers,

Graham

[PUPPYKINS]

Hi! Well that's that little mystery solved then! Its been something which had me puzzled for years.
Best wishes
Ian Strange

[Tony]

Hello folks. Here is the transcribed interview in full:


“I was the duty NCO in the Royal Air Force police stationed at Halton in Buckinghamshire and I went on duty this particular day and found there was a civilian in the back passage having a cigarette and a cup of coffee and I was told that this was Hanratty and that he’d been to the local hospital for an ID parade to pick him out as a possible suspect in the A6 murder, and I was to look after him. So I was standing out the back and we were having coffee and just chatting in general and I just casually said to him, as part of the conversation, “How do you think you stand?” and quite casually he said to me “They know I did it. I know I did it, but I don’t think that they can prove that I did it,” and he was quite casual about it. Wasn’t cocky, bombastic or anything. He just sincerely believed that he would walk."
John Needham, former RAF policeman interviewed for "Hanratty- The Whole Truth," shown on channel 4 in 2002.

It is all a bit strange. There's no reference to this chap in any of the books I've read about the case. It kind of makes you wonder. Is he completely trustworthy...or a lying bastard?! I don't see that he stands to gain anything by lying, but who knows?

Hello Ian,

Many thanks for that. This time I agree with Graham and I think Mr Needham was talking out of his back passage.

In addition to Graham’s points about this ‘incident’ if Mr Needham was in charge of Hanratty and that conversation took place he would have been obliged to report it to a senior officer to let Acott know. I’m sure it is a load of tripe.

Tony.

[jimarilyn]

Many thanks Ian for taking the time to transcribe that. I too agree with Tony and Graham, Hanratty as far as I know and from all I've learned about him was a non-smoker. Perhaps Mr Needham was a little desperate for money at the time the documentary was made.


regards,

james

[jimarilyn]

Hi folks! Although I've nothing to contribute, I'd just like to say that this is a terrific forum. I've been interested in the A6 case for years and it has to be the most fascinating murder mystery [I'm still not certain Hanratty was actually guilty] ever...apart from the Ripper murders of course!
Please keep posting. I'm completely hooked.
Best wishes
Ian Strange

Hi Ian,

You're too modest. You've already contributed much to this fascinating thread in a short space of time.


James



PS. The number of contributors to this thread who describe the case as fascinating is amazing.

[PUPPYKINS]

Hi Ian,

You're too modest. You've already contributed much to this fascinating thread in a short space of time.


James



PS. The number of contributors to this thread who describe the case as fascinating is amazing.

Thankyou James!

[Graham]

The recent mention of "Hanratty - The Whole Truth" prompted me to dig through my mountain of old video tapes last night. I've got "The Whole Truth", "Great Crimes of the 20th Century", and the "Horizon" programme (mostly about the DNA) on the same tape. Somewhere I've also got the Woffinden programme but couldn't find it (I never thought much of that anyway - rather too sentimental).

Anyway, I watched all three programmes for the first time in ages last night and it struck me how many errors they all contained, the John Needham interview being the most glaring (where/how did they find him in the first place?). The other thing that really gets my goat are the stupid dumb-show 'dramatisations' - not just in "The Whole Truth" but any programme that for whatever reason sees fit to use them. "The Whole Truth" tried its best, I supposed, but it was really too short to give the case the treatment it deserves. The "Horizon" programme also tried to be fair, even regarding possible contamination of the DNA evidence, but again I think it glossed over more than one important issue.

So that, guys, was how I spent my Sunday evening!

Cheers,

Graham

[Victor]

Is there any reason why the car couldn't have been stolen once it had been abandoned by Hanratty? I was thinking of blood, gore or bullet holes, or other evidence such as the mileage travelled.

Hi Victor,

Having never seen a photo of the inside of the car, I repeat my question and ask: does one exist? Looking at the photos of the car as it was found, no bullet-holes are visible (which is not to say that they didn't exist).

Re: bullet-holes, this was discussed on the old threads, and it was suggested (by Stan Reid) that the driver's window was open at the time of the shooting, and that the bullets passed through it and into the Bedfordshire countryside. Ref: Keith Simpson's statement that Gregsten was shot 'through and through'.

I have this feeling that Hanratty, after leaving the lay-by, was so traumatised by what he had done that he couldn't think straight, let alone drive properly, for a time, and did indeed park up somewhere for a while to try to get his mind sorted. It's also struck me that, pre-Motorway days, a route from London to Liverpool may well have included a large part of the A6 via Derby and southern Manchester, and Liverpool seems to have been a fairly common destination for him. Which suggests that the route he used from Dorney to Deadman's Hill wasn't necessarily chosen at random. Anyway, just a thought.

Cheers,

Graham

Hi Graham,

The lack of forensic evidence from the car is one of the major mysteries of the case, and the "bullets and gore flying straight out the window" line whilst plausible just seems unlikely to me.

Vic.

[Graham]

Hi Graham,

The lack of forensic evidence from the car is one of the major mysteries of the case, and the "bullets and gore flying straight out the window" line whilst plausible just seems unlikely to me.

Vic.

Hi Vic,

I never suggested the gore, etc flying through the window - only the bullets. Valerie said she could hear the blood dripping, so there must have been plenty of that inside the car. Maybe there was a rug or two to keep the blood off JH's clothes. Someone on the old thread asked why the photos of the car show no holes in the screen or the side-window, and therefore the suggestion of the open driver's window. That's why I asked if anyone had ever seen, or knows where I can find, photos of the interior of the car - they must have taken plenty. On the old 'Horizon' programme I watched last night Sherrard also refers to the strange lack of any forensic evidence linking the car to JH (or to anyone else other than Valerie and Michael), and this really is incredible. No fibres? No mud, etc., off shoes? No hair? I can only suggest that the methods of collecting forensic evidence in 1961 must have been very inefficient.

Cheers,

Graham

[Limehouse]

It makes you wonder whether they actually found the right car (leaving aside correct number plates) and whether somewhere in a river or lake, or locked up in someone's outhouse, lurkes a Morris Minor with a whole lot of forensic evidence inside. Not much use if it's under water though.