a6 murder

[alan]

Hello to you all,

Wonderful thread and and so much research and knowledge. I have been a fan for some time now.

Is there, however, any sort of definitive route the Morris Minor took or any presumed map available? Obviously the police must have taken an avid interest in this particular matter.

For me and after reading Lord Russell's book some years ago now always thought JH to be innocent. I've since read Paul Foot and Bob Wolfinden. I have never read Lionel Miller's book which I understand gives the opposite view.

The DNA finally convinced me of his guilt when it was announced but again I'm starting to question that evidence. A bit of motive would help!

I enjoyed the recent evidence of the average speeds of the Morris calculated from sightings on "his" return from Deadman's Hill.

Alan

[P.L.A]

Dixie

Graham

I have always thought that Dixie was brought into the case when police set out to identify Ryan.

With details of the gunman’s accent and apparent criminal mindset, the starting place was obvious.

As was said in the sixties, any rookie copper worth his salt would have an informer to tell him that Ryan was an associate of France.

Dixie then had no alternative than to reveal his friend’s true identity. With this, France and Hanratty were well and truly in the A6 investigation system.

If France had any involvement in the crime it is difficult to believe that Acott wouldn’t have beaten it out of him. The Crown needed every bit of evidence available, so would not have swept any of Dixie’s secrets under the carpet.

Non of this explains why he killed himself. Maybe he didn’t. Was it a clever murder staged as suicide?

Him taking a postcard from Ireland to Scotland Yard towards the end of September is very strange. Dixie knew that his friend had returned to England on the eleventh of the month. Why on earth did Acott go to Ireland when France knew that Hanratty was back in England?

My guess is that the postcard incident is a figment of Mrs. Frances imagination and that Acott made the Ireland connection only after visiting 72 Wood Lane. At this stage, France’s only involvement had been to tell a rookie man in blue that Ryan was Hanratty.

Peter

[Graham]

Hiya Peter,

Good post. I believe that the connection the police made between Ryan and Hanratty was never revealed, not even at the trial. Both Foot and Woffinden think that the connection was made by Dixie France, whose existence and address were revealed to Acott by some totally innocent man (whose name I've forgotten) receiving correspondence from the Dublin car-hire firm used by Hanratty. Didn't Hanratty use Dixie's address when hiring the car? I'm away from my books as I write this, so can't check to see just how Acott latched onto Mr Innocent, but maybe it was via speaking to the car-hire firm. You or A N Other will doubtless correct me if I'm talking crap.

I would seriously expect, given the nature of the crime and the pressure on the boys in blue, that Acott & Co leaned somewhat heavily upon Mr France.

I don't think Dixie had anything to do with the actual crime, but I've often wondered if he may have had a hand in obtaining the gun for Hanratty (I don't think he did, but I do think he may well have had a hand in disposing of it), and I've also often wondered if maybe Hanratty confessed to Dixie what he had done. Pure speculation, of course. But poor Dixie's mind was sufficiently affected by events that he took his own life. If he was murdered, then by whom? Oooh, the dread word conspiracy raises its ugly head again...but no, I don't believe he was murdered. But as we all know the police seized the majority of the writings that he left behind, and they certainly didn't do that to preserve great literature for posterity. Where are his writings now? Stored somewhere? Destroyed?

The 'accepted' explanation for Dixie's suicide is remorse for knowing and sheltering a murderer and rapist, and this may very well be the case. If I'd been in his shoes, I'd probably have felt the same...

Hi Alan,

Welcome to the thread. Regarding the actual route taken by the Morris, I don't think this can ever be established, certainly not by me whose knowledge of West London is about zero. However, Steve (is he on hols?) did a bit of digging in the days of the old boards, and I think he came up with a plausible 'possible' route. I would doubt if the occupants of the car took a great deal of notice, to be honest. Did Hanratty take the car to Deadman's Hill by sheer coincidence, or did he intend that they should go there? As to motive...ah, well. That, as they say, is the question...


Cheers,

Graham

[Graham]

To enlarge upon my last post (now I'm with my books):

On 26 September Acott followed up the address that 'Ryan' had written in the Vienna Hotel register. This was 72 Wood Lane, Kingsbury. There a Mr Pratt told them that he knew no-one called Ryan at that address, but then produced a letter from a Dublin car-hire firm addressed to a Mr Ryan at that address.

Later that same day Acott turned up at the home of Hanratty's parents and warned them that their son was wanted in connection with car-theft.

How, in a few hours, did Acott make the connection between Ryan and Hanratty?

According to Woffinden, Acott later said that it was via the man Gerard Leonard whom Hanratty met in Ireland, and who said he wrote post-cards for Hanratty, including one to Mr and Mrs Hanratty at Sycamore Grove. Woffinden rubbishes this statement, and I agree with him. The connection came from elsewhere, and I'd have to say that Dixie France is favourite. It's all a bit convoluted, and a further in-depth reading is required, I think.

Cheers,

Graham

[reg1965]

Hello to you all,

Wonderful thread and and so much research and knowledge. I have been a fan for some time now.

Is there, however, any sort of definitive route the Morris Minor took or any presumed map available? Obviously the police must have taken an avid interest in this particular matter.

For me and after reading Lord Russell's book some years ago now always thought JH to be innocent. I've since read Paul Foot and Bob Wolfinden. I have never read Lionel Miller's book which I understand gives the opposite view.

The DNA finally convinced me of his guilt when it was announced but again I'm starting to question that evidence. A bit of motive would help!

I enjoyed the recent evidence of the average speeds of the Morris calculated from sightings on "his" return from Deadman's Hill.

Alan

Hi Alan
Like Graham I would also like to welcome you to this most wonderful thread.
It is, in my opinion, the most fascinating case in British (if not the world's) legal history. Unlike JtR, the vast majority of the original material is still available (although some evidence is withheld under FOI rules until many years in the future).
As to the route taken that night I agree that Steve is your man but I will endeavour in the next couple of weeks to try to put together a rough guess of it taking in all of the published accounts of the testimony of Valerie Storie.
LaRue (the starter of this new/rebuilt thread) tried to get some info from Bedford records office as to the availablility of the transcript of the original trial and was told that it was there but nothing else has been really ascertained. It is said to be some 620,000 words in length! (Nudd's evidence is supposed to be missing though)
I would recommend reading Miller if you get a chance. It is not a book that I particularly like but it does give another view from a previously alleged Hanratty is innocent position! It is out of print and I have seen it changing hands at £50. I'd lend you mine but my A6 murder library is the holy of holys in my house!!!
If you have the stomach for it have a look on the A6 murder DNA evidence thread for a real punch up debate!

Motive...as Graham as said...is anyone's guess!

Hope to hear more from you soon.

Welcome aboard
Kind regards
Reg

[Graham]

Fifty quid for Miller's book??!!?? Blimey, I've just wrapped my copy in bubble-wrap...

Cheers,

Graham

[reg1965]

Fifty quid for Miller's book??!!?? Blimey, I've just wrapped my copy in bubble-wrap...

Cheers,

Graham

Easy Tiger
Before you go ringing the Antiques Roadshow...

I found this one for £7.99 (I take no responsiblity for the quality of the service) at;

http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/books/1902878221/prices?f_author=%26nbsp%3B&f_title=Shadows+of+Deadman%27s+Hill%3A+A+New+Analysis+of+the+A6+Murder%3A+Leonard+Miller

and a report of the book from the Bedford Today website throws some interesting light on Leonard Millers motives @

http://www.bedfordtoday.co.uk/bed-news/Hanratty-39abused-as-a-child39.283448.jp

plus if you want to read my original review of the book on amazon a week after reading it, it can be found at (shucks)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shadows-Deadmans-Hill-Analysis-Murder/dp/1902878221/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222214502&sr=1-1

Good on the Everton supporter for seeing sense!

Reg

[simon]

Hi Reg,
I've just read your Amazon write-up. I'm still a bit baffled as to why you and others get quite so steamed up about Miller's book : possibly because of the way he tries to put himself into JH's mind during the abduction and murder, I suppose. Personally I found it an interesting alternative to the other two works, and fairly convincing...although I admit that I'm not nearly as knowledgable about this case as you and some of our fellow posters are.

My Miller is a photocopy, for which I paid about 18 quid ! ("You were robbed", I hear you shout!)

Best wishes,
Simon

[simon]

Hi Graham,
So you, too, may well have killed yourself because of remorse for knowing and sheltering a rapist and murderer ? I doubt it. The 'official' version is that Dixie (who moved in criminal circles anyway) was full of angst for having brought JH into the family home....but, as I suggested several months ago, it's strange that a man so concerned for the welfare of his wife and kids would then deprive them of himself. I think there was more playing on his mind than that.

Sorry for repeating myself!

Simon

[Tony]

Easy Tiger
Before you go ringing the Antiques Roadshow...

I found this one for £7.99 (I take no responsiblity for the quality of the service) at;

http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/books/1902878221/prices?f_author=%26nbsp%3B&f_title=Shadows+of+Deadman%27s+Hill%3A+A+New+Analysis+of+the+A6+Murder%3A+Leonard+Miller

and a report of the book from the Bedford Today website throws some interesting light on Leonard Millers motives @

http://www.bedfordtoday.co.uk/bed-news/Hanratty-39abused-as-a-child39.283448.jp

plus if you want to read my original review of the book on amazon a week after reading it, it can be found at (shucks)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shadows-Deadmans-Hill-Analysis-Murder/dp/1902878221/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222214502&sr=1-1

Good on the Everton supporter for seeing sense!

Reg

Good afternoon Reg1965,

Whilst trying to obtain a copy of Miller’s book I tried Amazon almost on a daily basis and read the reviews. What a small world I must have read your review half a dozen times without making the connection to this forum. I do, however, realise more effort went into your review than Miller put in compiling his load of tripe. Your review says it all.

By the way did you happen to hear the old Sheffield United centre forward, Keith Edwards, reviewing your team’s effort at the Emirates stadium last night? A more biased man would be hard to find but he couldn’t praise the young Arsenal team enough.
At one stage he said he thought United should rough them up but they couldn’t get within five yards of them and he warned all premier league teams to watch out in a couple of years.

Well it’s all right for you.

Tony.

[Graham]

Hi Graham,
So you, too, may well have killed yourself because of remorse for knowing and sheltering a rapist and murderer ? I doubt it. The 'official' version is that Dixie (who moved in criminal circles anyway) was full of angst for having brought JH into the family home....but, as I suggested several months ago, it's strange that a man so concerned for the welfare of his wife and kids would then deprive them of himself. I think there was more playing on his mind than that.

Sorry for repeating myself!

Simon

Simon,

I was implying that I'd probably have felt remorseful, not that I'd have also bumped myself off.

I agree that there's a lot more to Dixie France than meets the casual eye, but whether we'll ever learn any more of his role in the case, I wouldn't know.

Cheers,

Graham

[Victor]

Let's examine Hanratty's movements from late March 1961 to August 21st.........

Hi James,

I read with interest your description of where JH was in 1961, and obviously this is sourced from prison and employment records, etc. but how much of it is from JH only and unverifiable? It'd only take a day to pop to Rhyl and one nights stay at the ingledene, then a day to get back to wherever.

So for those who suggest that James Hanratty was remembering (and describing in some detail) a previous visit to Rhyl, when exactly was this visit ?

How about a childhood holiday? How long had that plant and green bath been there?

[reg1965]

Good afternoon Reg1965,

Whilst trying to obtain a copy of Miller’s book I tried Amazon almost on a daily basis and read the reviews. What a small world I must have read your review half a dozen times without making the connection to this forum. I do, however, realise more effort went into your review than Miller put in compiling his load of tripe. Your review says it all.

By the way did you happen to hear the old Sheffield United centre forward, Keith Edwards, reviewing your team’s effort at the Emirates stadium last night? A more biased man would be hard to find but he couldn’t praise the young Arsenal team enough.
At one stage he said he thought United should rough them up but they couldn’t get within five yards of them and he warned all premier league teams to watch out in a couple of years.

Well it’s all right for you.

Tony.

Hi Tony
I was listening to the Arsenal game on radio 5 live with Ray 'Romford Pele' Parlour summarising. It got to 5-0 then they went over to the Manc-Middlesbro game...they must have been bored watching the young lads destroy the Blades!! I think that a couple of years will be about right though, then world domination begins.
Cheers
Reg

[P.L.A]

Bits and Pieces

We shouldn’t go overboard about the “my memory is fading fast” utterance. There is a good chance that it wasn’t irreversible and that Miss Storie’s mind would have received a good jolt if placed face to face with the perpetrator of the crime.

As for seemingly amazing co-incidents, well there are a lot of lottery millionaires whose fourteen million to one chances came up. Maybe in the A6 analogy, a person’s numbers keep coming up.

Must say that I’ve never understood why, when Hanratty was looking for B&B in Rhyl, he insisted that he must have two nights.

Peter

[P.L.A]

The Police (God bless 'em)

In 1980, the Australian police initially became suspicious of Lindy Chamberlain in the Dingo / Baby case because there were no contradictions or loose ends in her account of what happened.

Added to this, they thought it strange that at her second and third interviews, she didn’t change or add to detail of her initial story. Their experience told them that this was very unusual in such a highly stressing situation.

Seems you can’t win. There are people who still believe she was guilty even though she won her appeal.

Acott didn’t have the benefit of such things as Phrase Analysis of statements that are common today. On the other hand, he wasn’t inhibited by the red tape of recorded interviews, etc.

Presumably you have all seen pictures of Podola’s beautiful black eye, received when arrested by DCI Acott for the murder of a policeman.

On the subject of police killers (people that murder a man in blue, not the other way round you understand) and miscarriages of justice – we are constantly reminded of Derek Bentley. Why does no one ever cite Ronald Marwood? I can’t for the life of me see how a jury convicted on the evidence presented. No wonder the other inmates almost tore the prison to pieces on the eve of his execution.

Peter