James Camb - "The Porthole Case"

[ColdCaseJury]

A very sad life there.

Jeff

Yes, a sad end to a young life. You might agree with the last paragraph in my book:

"Victims of notorious murders die twice: once at the hands of their assailants, and once in the eyes of history, their names forever wedded with those of their killers. Even if you believe Gay Gibson was not murdered, history sees her leading man as James Camb and her stage as the Durban Castle. This seems such a cruel way to remember the potential and expectations of a young life washed away by the indiscriminate tides of misfortune."

Antony

[Mayerling]

Good summation of Gay's tragedy. And I liked the trope use of "washed away". If she had lived, there would have been no guarantee of stage or screen or television stardom, but there was always some possibility of a respectable career in acting.

[louisa]

It's been years since I read about the Gay Gibson murder but am I correct in thinking that Camb admitted, at his trial, that he heaved Gay out of the porthole whilst she was still breathing - or could have still been breathing, he wasn't certain whether she was or wasn't, and this admission sealed his fate?

I will be buying this new book on the case off Amazon, if it is still available, as soon as I log off from this website.

[Joshua Rogan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-43478495

"You can watch The Porthole Mystery on the BBC iPlayer once it has been broadcast on the News Channel at 9.30pm on Friday."

[OneRound]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-43478495

"You can watch The Porthole Mystery on the BBC iPlayer once it has been broadcast on the News Channel at 9.30pm on Friday."

Mrs Warboys involved - I don't believe it!

[Spitfire]

Those were the days. No body found, yet the jury took 45 minutes to convict. It took a Chester jury two days to convict Darren McKie this week, who dumped his wife's body in a lake after having strangled her.

[OneRound]

Those were the days. No body found, yet the jury took 45 minutes to convict. It took a Chester jury two days to convict Darren McKie this week, who dumped his wife's body in a lake after having strangled her.

Hi Spitfire - I remember a Steptoe episode in which Harold is called for jury service. After he proudly talks of the responsibilities of the role, dad Albert tells him something like, ''Never mind all that, make sure you convict him. He wouldn't be on trial if he hadn't done it.''

Best regards,

OneRound

[Spitfire]

Another thing which has changed is the sentence for murder.

In the good old days the automatic sentence for murder was the death penalty. However roughly half of these death sentences were commuted to life imprisonment with the murderer released on parole after serving between 8 and 15 years. Camb was released after about 11 years.

Today, it is the trial judge who fixes the minimum period the convicted murderer should serve. In the aftermath of the trial, especially high profile cases, the urge to be tough on crime is irresistible, so minimum terms of 25 years plus are now the norm.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal in any sense of the description, but I doubt the wisdom of locking people up for 40 years or so if they no longer pose a threat to society.

[caz]

Hi Spitfire - I remember a Steptoe episode in which Harold is called for jury service. After he proudly talks of the responsibilities of the role, dad Albert tells him something like, ''Never mind all that, make sure you convict him. He wouldn't be on trial if he hadn't done it.''

Best regards,

OneRound

Hi OneRound,

That was probably around the same time my late father was called for jury service. His attitude was much the same as Albert's, that you wouldn't be in the dock in the first place if you were innocent.

My brothers and I quipped that Dad could just post a little note to the judge with "Guilty" written on it, to save time and expense.

Makes you wonder how many people have been convicted over the years by juries who thought like my Dad.

Love,

Caz
X

[Sam Flynn]

His attitude was much the same as Albert's, that you wouldn't be in the dock in the first place if you were innocent.

Albert Dock

[Mayerling]

Hi OneRound,

That was probably around the same time my late father was called for jury service. His attitude was much the same as Albert's, that you wouldn't be in the dock in the first place if you were innocent.

My brothers and I quipped that Dad could just post a little note to the judge with "Guilty" written on it, to save time and expense.

Makes you wonder how many people have been convicted over the years by juries who thought like my Dad.

Love,

Caz
X

For many years when I went for jury duty my being a law school graduate weighed against me (today it no longer can, but back in the 1990s it still could). In one case, I was informed by BOTH counsels that I was being excused from duty because, "you are a law school graduate, and you want to dominate the jury panel." This was the first time I was to learn that my secret desire was to dominate juries I served on. Until then I never thought that was my secret craving.

I was still sitting in the courtroom and was listening to the questions directed to the other would-be jurors, and an elderly woman was asked 1) if she was ever robbed; 2) if she had any relative in the police department; 3) if she was opposed to the idea of a fair trial. She got accepted by giving answers the two legal solons felt were proper. She sat down next to me, and the judge and the attorneys had to discuss some matter, so she muttered about the damned fool questions that she was asked. "Of course I was never robbed. My sister was robbed twice at gunpoint, but they didn't ask me about that!! And while no relative of mine is a policeman, my son's brother-in-law is!!" Now, I heard this, and could easily have ratted the poor woman out. Instead I decided not to because I did not want to prove to the two idiots who denied a seat on the jury to me that I wanted to dominate the jury;

[OneRound]

Another thing which has changed is the sentence for murder.

In the good old days the automatic sentence for murder was the death penalty. However roughly half of these death sentences were commuted to life imprisonment with the murderer released on parole after serving between 8 and 15 years. Camb was released after about 11 years.

Today, it is the trial judge who fixes the minimum period the convicted murderer should serve. In the aftermath of the trial, especially high profile cases, the urge to be tough on crime is irresistible, so minimum terms of 25 years plus are now the norm.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal in any sense of the description, but I doubt the wisdom of locking people up for 40 years or so if they no longer pose a threat to society.

Hi Spitfire - I feel something that rattled the British public and intensified their feelings about the Craig & Bentley case was not only the sub-normal (as termed then) secondary partner, Bentley, being hanged whilst the person who committed the physical act of murder, Craig, was imprisoned but also the latter being released after less than 11 years.

Best regards,

OneRound

[Spitfire]

Hi Spitfire - I feel something that rattled the British public and intensified their feelings about the Craig & Bentley case was not only the sub-normal (as termed then) secondary partner, Bentley, being hanged whilst the person who committed the physical act of murder, Craig, was imprisoned but also the latter being released after less than 11 years.

Best regards,

OneRound

Hello OR,

Possibly, but most people were in favour of capital punishment when it was abolished. Opinion polls since abolition have indicated a strong element in favour of its return. 75% in favour as late as 1983 and only dropping below 50% as recently as 2015. All of which might indicate that most folk were happy with the system in place immediately before abolition, which, along with all systems involving a human agency, involved an inherent possibility of error.

Regards

S

[OneRound]

Hello OR,

Possibly, but most people were in favour of capital punishment when it was abolished. Opinion polls since abolition have indicated a strong element in favour of its return. 75% in favour as late as 1983 and only dropping below 50% as recently as 2015. All of which might indicate that most folk were happy with the system in place immediately before abolition, which, along with all systems involving a human agency, involved an inherent possibility of error.

Regards

S

Hi again Spitfire - the point I was really trying to make was that Craig was perceived as getting off lightly, both in terms of not being hanged (as legally had to be the case in view of his age) and again when he was released after serving less than 11 years. The contrast with the sentence imposed upon Bentley was huge. Not sure that came across to you.

I am sure there would have been less public anxiety about Bentley's execution if Craig had been old enough to join him on the gallows.

Best regards,

OneRound

[Spitfire]

Hi again Spitfire - the point I was really trying to make was that Craig was perceived as getting off lightly, both in terms of not being hanged (as legally had to be the case in view of his age) and again when he was released after serving less than 11 years. The contrast with the sentence imposed upon Bentley was huge. Not sure that came across to you.

I am sure there would have been less public anxiety about Bentley's execution if Craig had been old enough to join him on the gallows.

Best regards,

OneRound

Hi again OR,

The sentence eventually imposed on Craig was in line with the 'going rate' for life imprisonment for murder. In that respect, the Bentley/Craig case was no different from any other. The public outcry was that Bentley was hanged and Craig, the gunman, lived. I don't think that there was a public outcry when Craig was released after 11 years or so, no more than there was a public outcry when James Camb was released after a similar period of time.

Churchill was upset that Camb was spared the noose by a Criminal Justice bill passed by the Commons which would have suspended the death penalty for 5 years. So in the late 1940s, well before Bentley/Craig, Parliament was itching to abolish the death penalty.

Regards

S