Whatever Happened to Ameila Earhart?

[Mayerling]

Jeff, that's an interesting point: a few of the books say Noonan was a hard boozer, others say not. One interesting datapoint is that Noonan got what we 'Mericans call "sloppy drunk" with a pal in New Guinea the night before leaving for Howland, and Earhart had to postpone the trip for a day. (Source for that is the Longs' book.) Noonan certainly *was* a top navigator in his day.

A bit off topic, again, sorry, but speaking of the Dambusters, this is in Wikipedia's 'recent deaths' page for yesterday:

Les Munro, 96, New Zealand pilot, last surviving pilot of Operation Chastise

Men of steel, the Dambusters. What F1 race commentator David Hobbs calls having "very large attachments."

Hi Oscar,

I saw the obituary in the New York Times. It was a remarkable (and ultimately successful) attack, but at terrible loss among the plane crews.

The movie, "The Dambusters" with Sir Michael Redgrave had a theme music piece by the same composer as "The Knightsbridge Mark", Eric Coates. It sometimes is played as concert music.

Jeff

[Pcdunn]

Bumping this up to report on a link I was sent to a Daily Mail article about the results of the TIGHAR search for Amelia: Her plane landed on a reef, she managed transmissions at night when tides allowed, but Noonan was injured badly and eventually the plane shifted into the water and they were lost.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5992271/The-final-days-Amelia-Earhart-Researchers-analyze-haunting-distress-calls-pilot.html

I must say it makes the most sense of any of the theories about Amelia's and Fred's disappearances.

[Graham]

I suppose the one and only way to prove what happened (at least to Amelia) is to DNA-test the bones. She had no children, but I believe she had a niece who, if she and/or any offspring she had are still alive, would provide a match. If there is any plan to DNA test the bones, I've yet to hear it.

For my money, I'm about 95% convinced that Amelia and Noonan came down on Gardner Island, or very close to it. I've recently read that Amelia wasn't quite the top pilot she was cracked up to be....

Graham

[Mayerling]

I suppose the one and only way to prove what happened (at least to Amelia) is to DNA-test the bones. She had no children, but I believe she had a niece who, if she and/or any offspring she had are still alive, would provide a match. If there is any plan to DNA test the bones, I've yet to hear it.

For my money, I'm about 95% convinced that Amelia and Noonan came down on Gardner Island, or very close to it. I've recently read that Amelia wasn't quite the top pilot she was cracked up to be....

Graham

Hi Graham,

I read of the Gardner Island theory the other day. Quite haunting to think of Amelia's desperate attempts to use the plane's radio a few hours every day until the plane fell off the reef and sank, and then she and Noonan died of thirst. Those weakening transmissions being heard thousands of miles off, and nobody being able to use them to trace her (at the time).

In a biography of Earhart I read over a decade ago I recall that someone in the U.S. claimed she heard a transmission that was not clear with references to a ship and New York City, but not being able to understand it. Supposedly it might have referred to an island where a freighter named the New York City was wrecked.

It goes on like this, and we really are no closer than before to know the full truth yet. I hope we will one day (if those remains are found - or the plane). To me the best of the bad solutions was gas ran out and they plunged into the Pacific. The second would be the death of starvation on a desert island. The third was the Japanese prison theory. The least was they faked it, and Amelia went to live in New Jersey under another name until she died.

Jeff

[Graham]

Jeff,

the much-photographed hulk on the shore of Gardner Island was the British-registered freighter SS Norwich City, which ran aground in the early 1930's I believe. Now an American would naturally pronounce 'Norwich' as 'Nor Witch rather than the correct British pronunciation of Norridge. With a dodgy radio link, this may well have come over as 'New York City'. I suspect that in 1937 the ship's name was still legible. There are I believe bits of the ship still visible on Gardner.

If true, this transmission would I think go some way to confirming that the Electra came down on, or partly on, Gardner Island. Which, rather than being a total desert island, had been inhabited for periods of time prior to Amelia's disappearance, and was again afterwards. I have a feeling that I read one time that there is a fresh-water spring somewhere on the island.

I don't think the Japanese PoW theory holds water, in spite of fairly recent claims for it, and I honestly don't think the disappearance was faked. If it was faked, for what purpose?

Graham

[Mayerling]

Jeff,

the much-photographed hulk on the shore of Gardner Island was the British-registered freighter SS Norwich City, which ran aground in the early 1930's I believe. Now an American would naturally pronounce 'Norwich' as 'Nor Witch rather than the correct British pronunciation of Norridge. With a dodgy radio link, this may well have come over as 'New York City'. I suspect that in 1937 the ship's name was still legible. There are I believe bits of the ship still visible on Gardner.

If true, this transmission would I think go some way to confirming that the Electra came down on, or partly on, Gardner Island. Which, rather than being a total desert island, had been inhabited for periods of time prior to Amelia's disappearance, and was again afterwards. I have a feeling that I read one time that there is a fresh-water spring somewhere on the island.

I don't think the Japanese PoW theory holds water, in spite of fairly recent claims for it, and I honestly don't think the disappearance was faked. If it was faked, for what purpose?

Graham

That Japanese story actually dates back fairly early after the tragedy occurred. In 1943 a film starring Rosalind Russell and Fred MacMurray called "Flight For Freedom" appeared in Hollywood, and was a really badly disguised story of Earhart, and suggested she was on a spying mission of the Japanese military installations on the last flight, but when she finds they are going to force her down and capture her she purposely (ironically) "kamikaze" crashes to successfully complete her mission.

The evidence for that solution is as bad as the evidence for the New Jersey disappearance (why indeed disappear to restart her life? - she and George Putnam were not really lovers, but formed an affectionate partnership based on her writing career, and he really was deeply involved in the search attempts).

The Gardiner Island theory is the best one to work on for any potential proof. The Pacific Ocean crash would be the most difficult (where to search for the plane?)!

Jeff

[Robert]

Amelia's niece seems to be still alive :

https://soundcloud.com/chasingearhart/murielteacher-and-civic-activist-a-conversation-with-amy-kleppner

[Ginger]

More news about Amelia Earhart: https://www.foxnews.com/science/amel...nea-wreck-site

[Graham]

Interesting, and far more credible than those who claim she and Noonan were captured and executed by the Japanese. I remember someone suggesting a long time ago that she turned back towards PNG, long before she reached the vicinity of Gardner Island, and crashed somewhere along the SW (?) coast of PNG. However, I think this was only a suggestion, not backed up with any evidence.

Graham

[Joshua Rogan]

New search for Amelia;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-49231625

[Joshua Rogan]

Plane found using Google Maps

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1177955/amelia-earhart-plane-palmyra-island-found-ufo-hunter-finds-aircraft-google-maps/amp?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

[Graham]

OK, yes, it was a plane. Probably. The commentator says it is definitely a Lockheed Electra, the type that Earhart and Noonan were flying. Could be a DC3 or any other twin-engined commercial or military aircraft. However, the island also boasts an airstrip, which doesn't seem to be in tip-top condition, and would date, I should think, from WW2 or even a bit before. There were military airstrips on islands all over the Pacific during WW2, and there must be dozens, if not hundreds, of wrecked aircraft from that era on Pacific islands. I'd say that the aircraft in the photo dates from WW2, landed on that airstrip and was damaged, and was just bulldozed off to where it lies to this day.

Graham

[JeffHamm]

And then there's this:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/found-last-international-women%E2%80%99s-day-forensics-declare-remains-pacific-island-are-amelia

- Jeff

[Graham]

And then there's this:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/found-last-international-women%E2%80%99s-day-forensics-declare-remains-pacific-island-are-amelia

- Jeff

I'm quite prepared to accept that.

Graham

[Joshua Rogan]

OK, yes, it was a plane. Probably. The commentator says it is definitely a Lockheed Electra, the type that Earhart and Noonan were flying. Could be a DC3 or any other twin-engined commercial or military aircraft. However, the island also boasts an airstrip, which doesn't seem to be in tip-top condition, and would date, I should think, from WW2 or even a bit before. There were military airstrips on islands all over the Pacific during WW2, and there must be dozens, if not hundreds, of wrecked aircraft from that era on Pacific islands. I'd say that the aircraft in the photo dates from WW2, landed on that airstrip and was damaged, and was just bulldozed off to where it lies to this day.

How they can tell what type of aircraft it is from that blurry image is anyone's guess - I too thought it looked as much like a Dakota as an Electra, which would make sense as Palmyra was indeed used by the US as an airbase during WWII.
But after a little digging it seems they may be (almost) correct. And also yourself, except for the date. In 1980 a Locheed Learstar (which is basically a stretched version of the Electra) crashed on the island and was damaged beyond repair. So I suspect that it is sitting there to this day.