The Paranormal

[Scorpio]

Is anyone interested in the paranormal, and paranormal research ?
Despite poor methodology and questionable validity of the data, i still maintain an open mind and an interest in the subject . A good example of the problems faced can be seen in the ' Enfield Poltergeist ' documentory currently on You Tube. It became a ludicrous media circus.
I live in area with a rich supernatural folklore, and would love to investigate, but i now so little on the subject.

[Batman]

Is anyone interested in the paranormal, and paranormal research ?
Despite poor methodology and questionable validity of the data, i still maintain an open mind and an interest in the subject . A good example of the problems faced can be seen in the ' Enfield Poltergeist ' documentory currently on You Tube. It became a ludicrous media circus.
I live in area with a rich supernatural folklore, and would love to investigate, but i now so little on the subject.

When I was younger I loved this. Now I am older, all that has changed. I am a die hard skeptic on this stuff. Have you ever heard of James Randi? He has a million dollar challange out there for whoever can demonstrate something supernatural. Nobody has won yet, but many have tried. He also exposes hoaxers.

What's the difference between the Enfield Poltergeist and a young girl acting up?

Another thing too is that there is lots of footage of investigators that set up cameras in the rooms of children complaining about ghosts breaking things only to record the kids getting out of bed, breaking pottery and then telling mum a ghost did it. We never get to see those on supernatural TV shows, by Arthur C. Clarke showed one in his series.

I know I am a killjoy on this stuff, but I think skepticism goes a long way these days.

[Scorpio]

I am a skeptic also.
When i first heard audio tracks of ' Bill ' in the Enfield case, i was impressed; but when i saw the video footage, oh dear; the girl is not a good actor, you can see her reacting to the words as they come out of her mouth. Hardly a disembodied spirit. Still, the investigators openly stated that the kids actively tried to mislead them; Guy Playfair felt it was unreasonable not to expect them to. Some other aspects of the case are more impressive.

[Amanda]

Skeptic..

I used to run a business in a building that is supposedly haunted by quite a few ghosts.
Never actually saw anything, but every night when I locked the door I could smell cherry tobacco behind me. Used to make my hair stand on end.

Think I'm still a skeptic but there's such a lot we don't know about the world we live in....

Amanda

[Scorpio]

I agree Amanda; but would i consider recurring smells proof positive ?

[Graham]

I used to run a business in a building that is supposedly haunted by quite a few ghosts.
Never actually saw anything, but every night when I locked the door I could smell cherry tobacco behind me. Used to make my hair stand on end.

Think I'm still a skeptic but there's such a lot we don't know about the world we live in....

Amanda

Until recently I sang in an amateur operatic society, and we put our shows on at a well-known theatre in the Midlands. Nearly every night there was a smell of cigar-smoke on the stairs leading to the dressing rooms, even though smoking anywhere in the place was strictly verboten. Strange thing was, not everyone could smell it. I could, yet I'm a sceptic concerning the paranormal.
When mentioned to the backstage staff, they just grinned and said something to the effect that 'you get used to it'.

Graham

[kensei]

Discussion of paranormal topics here on Casebook has tended to be quite a mixed bag and there are a lot of die hard skeptics here. It's a field I've studied in some depth and I would just like to caution against taking a few individual cases and using them to judge an entire field of study.

As far as James Randi I have heard things about him that make it sound as if someone could stand on a stage with him in front of a live audience, point at him and cause him to rise fifteen feet into the air, spin him around and then set him back down, and he would find some reason why that did not qualify as proof of the paranormal. There are also allegations that whether or not the paranormal exists, the prize money he offers for proof probably doesn't. Can't confirm that, it's just what I've heard.

[Chris]

I think the more interesting evidence comes from experiments, which have been giving statistically significant results for various forms of ESP since before the Second World War. (Incidentally, the "Randi prize" sets a very high hurdle for statistical evidence for the paranormal - perhaps understandably. From memory, I think the criterion is that the observed results would have only a 1 in a million probability of occurring by chance.)

The usual pattern is that psychical researchers find results that are very unlikely to happen by chance, then sceptics try to reproduce them and usually (but not always) fail. Then people try to put all the experiments together and analyse them as a whole ("meta-analysis") and inevitably the analyses of the believers confirm there is something there, and the analyses of the sceptics deny it. And then there is a lengthy argument about statistical methods.

This tends to happen over and over again, and probably the latest episode is this one (though sceptics are certainly in the ascendant on Wikipedia, so the account is not a very balanced one):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Bem#.22Feeling_the_Future.22_controversy

Of course, in the last analysis it is very difficult to rule out fraud, and undeniably fraud has sometimes occurred in the field.

[Scorpio]

I think fraud is endemic in paranormal research.
I always remember a guy who stunned onlookers with what appeared to be telekineses: He lifted a sheet of paper from a table while restrained.
A paranormal investigator eventually learned the trick behind the apparently paranormal ; Undetected, the guy was blowing a jet of air from his mouth which was forming a layer of warm air beneath the sheet and lifting it.

[Scorpio]

Foul smells are often associated with paranormal activity. I have heard accounts of bodily decay,excrement and such things; but i suppose anything is possible.

[Graham]

Another little snippet that may be of interest. Ages ago I knew a C of E vicar one of whose congregation claimed that her sister was beset by poltergeist activity. After much badgering, and also declining to carry out an exorcism, the vicar went to see this woman and said that after about half an hour, during which no paranormal activity occurred, he concluded that she was mentally unstable. Oddly enough, following his visit she never once complained again of poltergeists, which she and her sister put down to the vicar's holy presence and the Lord's intervention through him.

Which, of course, the vicar scoffed at.

Graham

[Chris]

I think fraud is endemic in paranormal research.
I always remember a guy who stunned onlookers with what appeared to be telekineses: He lifted a sheet of paper from a table while restrained.
A paranormal investigator eventually learned the trick behind the apparently paranormal ; Undetected, the guy was blowing a jet of air from his mouth which was forming a layer of warm air beneath the sheet and lifting it.

I think you have to distinguish between fraud on the part of experimental subjects and fraud on the part of the people carrying out the experiments. Unfortunately there have undeniably been cases of the latter, but I don't think that on the evidence it can be described as "endemic". The problem is that it's so difficult to rule it out.

[Scorpio]

Yes, by endemic i was referring to paranormal research in general; but i suppose fraud by the investigators themselves is possible.

[Batman]

As far as James Randi I have heard things about him that make it sound as if someone could stand on a stage with him in front of a live audience, point at him and cause him to rise fifteen feet into the air, spin him around and then set him back down, and he would find some reason why that did not qualify as proof of the paranormal. There are also allegations that whether or not the paranormal exists, the prize money he offers for proof probably doesn't. Can't confirm that, it's just what I've heard.

Randi is able to expose hoaxes too. Randi (who is a trained magacian!) is able to repeat their 'supernatural' abilities. He shows how anyone can do it.

Strange thing is, many of these supernatural claims can occur when in public, when Randi isn't around, but when he is, suddenly the very public supernatural thing can't happen anymore.

The way I see it is this. The universe either has supernatural stuff or not. We live in one and not the other. Which universe does the one we exist in resemble? I say natural... not supernatural... and nearly everything around us demonstrate nature doing natures thing without magical intervention. If we lived in a supernatural world, well... I would expect it to be supernatural... like Buffy the Vampire Slayer for real, lolz.

[kensei]

Well there is always the old saying that the Devil's greatest deception was convincing people he didn't exist.