Great Disappearances

[Rosella]

There are now more than forty bodies recovered from the crash site, near the island of Borneo in the Java Sea. Debris is widespread. It's an awful tragedy but at least this is no longer a mystery with no answers.

[GUT]

I read on a different forum that the last talk from the newest disappeared airliner was "concerns about the weather" and then "silence". They say it was over the Java Sea.

G'day Dunny [I warned you]

That sounds like the case. It seems the weather in the area was atrocious.

[Pcdunn]

I read on a different forum that the last talk from the newest disappeared airliner was "concerns about the weather" and then "silence". They say it was over the Java Sea.

[GUT]

Now the really striking thing is that this plane and MH370 are both supposed to have crashed into the sea.

If they ditched into the ocean at a shallow angle, there should have been some chance to activate the self-powered emergency beacons, and deploy the life rafts. For obvious reasons, these things are carefully designed to stick out like a sore thumb to aircraft overflying the area.

If, on the other hand, they hit the water at a steep angle, the plane should have gone to pieces, and there ought to be seat cushions (they're designed to float), and luggage, and dead bodies, and oil slicks, and little fragments of debris covering a substantial area.

Neither one of those seems to have happened, in either case. That seems very odd to me.

G'day Ginger

Nothing strange about them going into the ocean, it's Huuuuuuuge after all.

There would be floaties either way the question is where do you look since they have nothing more than in the latest case a rough guess where it went down and in the case of MH bugger all idea. It's a bit like looking for the proverbial needle in a hay stack only worse.

[Ginger]

Seems now it is an Indonesian Airliner, but the airbus was owned by a firm in Malaysia (or something like that). 2014 was just a terrible year for planes connected to Malaysia.

Now the really striking thing is that this plane and MH370 are both supposed to have crashed into the sea.

If they ditched into the ocean at a shallow angle, there should have been some chance to activate the self-powered emergency beacons, and deploy the life rafts. For obvious reasons, these things are carefully designed to stick out like a sore thumb to aircraft overflying the area.

If, on the other hand, they hit the water at a steep angle, the plane should have gone to pieces, and there ought to be seat cushions (they're designed to float), and luggage, and dead bodies, and oil slicks, and little fragments of debris covering a substantial area.

Neither one of those seems to have happened, in either case. That seems very odd to me.

[Mayerling]

Another vanished airliner

Seems now it is an Indonesian Airliner, but the airbus was owned by a firm in Malaysia (or something like that). 2014 was just a terrible year for planes connected to Malaysia.

[Graham]

As for the "a dingo stole my baby" true-life mystery, it has been dramatized as the film "Cry in the Dark", and has proven controversial, with much discussion going back and forth as to the solutions: Wild animals, kidnapping, murder by the parents-- ? Very interesting case. Weird that they were near Ayers Rock, too...

There were even accusations levelled at the Chamberlains that they had killed Azaria as part of a sacrificial rite. The family were Seventh Day Adventists, and because of their stringently puritanical beliefs there was definite public and media antipathy towards them. Also, the forensic evidence was contradictory, causing the "stolen by a dingo" theory to be discredited. However, it really all boils down to the fact that there never was any solid evidence that Mrs Chamberlain had killed Azaria, and she should never have been charged with murder. That a dingo did "steal" and kill the baby, whose remains were never found, is I think the only possible solution to this case.

Graham

[Mayerling]

Both sides tried crazy ideas to win during the war. For example, Churchill backed an eccentric genius named Pyke in making a project called "Habbakuk" which created huge floating cargo ships and carriers that were partly large scale, man-made (if you will) icebergs. One actually got built in Hudson's Bay. This scheme, created in 1942 to combat the huge damage from German U-boats, was concluded successfully, except that by the time it was finished the use of Radar and the U.S. convoy system (and increased U.S. naval presence in the Atlantic) slowly sank more and more German subs. By the time Habbakuk was ready for display the need was gone. So nothing further was done with the ship, but to take it apart.

The Germans were, actually, even more bazaar because of their leadership. Both Hitler and Himmler tended (hard to fully believe) towards mysticism. Attempts were made to see if the Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant were actually now in France, so that the German Armies would remain invincible.

The Japanese were not too far behind either, especially as the war began to go sour for them. In 1943 they launched a campaign against the U.S. mainland using wind currents to waft balloons that were set to detenate huge explosives in California, Oregon, and Washington when the balloons got there. A few did. Unfortunately one was successful in killing a woman and some children in Oregon.

And I might add that the U.S. also did seize Nicola Tesla's personal records and papers when that great genius died in 1943. Apparently he said he had plans for a death ray. Who knows? If he did it probably would work.

Jeff

[Pcdunn]

Hi Pat,

if my dad's friend was telling the truth, then that must mean there was something factual about the Philadelphia Experiment. My dad was a cynical person at the best of times, and I'm pretty sure that he didn't believe what he was told. I've had a good look on the Internet, and it does appear that the consensus is that it was a hoax, but possibly a hoax that was inspired by some genuine research work on magnetic fields, etc.

Ref: Picnic At Hanging Rock, has anyone on this thread mentioned the "Dingo Baby", a real Australian disappearance (at Ayers Rock) that was never solved?

Graham

Hi, Graham,

I think there was definite interest in researching the possibility of magnetic fields and/or invisibility at that time. They were seeking all kinds of scientific advances to help combat the Axis.
There was even a crackpot who convinced the U.S. Government he could train dogs to attack Asians based on their scent. This led to a training center set up on an island where soldiers of Japanese descent were sent to act as-- well, sad to say, "bait"-- but fortunately the project failed, as the dogs didn't react reliably enough to prove the concept. (This was examined on an episode of the nonfiction TV show "History's Mysteries".)

As for the "a dingo stole my baby" true-life mystery, it has been dramatized as the film "Cry in the Dark", and has proven controversial, with much discussion going back and forth as to the solutions: Wild animals, kidnapping, murder by the parents-- ? Very interesting case. Weird that they were near Ayers Rock, too...

[Pcdunn]

Are you thinking of "Picnic at Hanging Rock", PC Dunn? Sadly fictitious, but a thoroughly spooky story anyway! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picnic_at_Hanging_Rock

Hi, Ginger,

I'm not familiar with this Australian movie you linked to, but the story certainly sounds similar to the story I've heard. The wiki entry said the movie was based on a novel, but sometimes fiction stories are inspired by real-life events.

Ayers Rock is definitely the place I was thinking of, and a little research provided its native Australian name and legends of its inception. There seem to be stories of snakes and snake-goddesses linked to the place.

[Graham]

Great, glad I could help, Graham. Wow, what a neat story your Dad had, nice extra detail.

Hi Pat,

if my dad's friend was telling the truth, then that must mean there was something factual about the Philadelphia Experiment. My dad was a cynical person at the best of times, and I'm pretty sure that he didn't believe what he was told. I've had a good look on the Internet, and it does appear that the consensus is that it was a hoax, but possibly a hoax that was inspired by some genuine research work on magnetic fields, etc.

Ref: Picnic At Hanging Rock, has anyone on this thread mentioned the "Dingo Baby", a real Australian disappearance (at Ayers Rock) that was never solved?

Graham

[Ginger]

What is the story about the Australian rock formation? Any tips on the search terms I should use would be appreciated.

Are you thinking of "Picnic at Hanging Rock", PC Dunn? Sadly fictitious, but a thoroughly spooky story anyway! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picnic_at_Hanging_Rock

[GUT]

G'day Jeff

Not only is Waratah a place name.

It is also a beautiful flower, the Floral Emblem of New South Wales. It grows on a stalk about 7-8 foot tall with an, almost, football size deep red flower on the top.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waratah

The place was named for the abundance of the plant in the local. Waratah is a suburb of Newcastle NSW.

[Mayerling]

Thank you so much for your trouble, Mayerling. (By the way, Mayerling was another famous mystery, wasn't it?) I'll certainly look up those books.

Hi Rosella,

I am happy to be of service regarding "Waratah" I think when I first saw that Australian name in the 1960s I was fascinated by the case - at first I thought it was some anagram, but then I learned it is a place name in Australia.

And speaking of names - I use "Mayerling" on this board precisely for the mystery connected to it. It was the name of the hunting lodge in the Vienna Woods where Crown Prince Rudolf and his girl friend/mistress Countess Maria Vetsera died on January 30, 1889, presumably in a suicide pact or a permitted murder-suicide connected to their inability to get a divorce for Rudolf to marry Maria (Austria - Hungary was the most important Catholic state in Europe: on religious grounds, and due to the extreme conservatism of Emperor Franz Josef's Hapsburg Court, such a divorce for the Crown Prince from his loveless marriage to Princess Stephanie of Belgium was impossible). In the century and a quarter since the events, more probing of the incident has occurred. The Emperor covered up a great deal. One major point that Joan Haislip brought out in her biography on Empress Elisabeth of Austria (which I recommend) is that Rudolf was somewhat cowardly. Franz Josef had hoped his son would stiffen when he realized his potentially huge responsibilities to his subjects. It never happened, and the old man went to his grave in 1916 knowing Rudolf spent the entire night, after shooting Maria, apparently doing nothing - it might have been he was in a state of shock from this action, but the Emperor probably thought his son was debating whether he wanted to carry out his suicide. There is also a theory, somewhat hard to debate, that Rudolf's liberalism got him targeted by Bismarck because it potentially threatened the alliance with the Wilhelmine German Empire. So it could have been a double murder. Same too is a recent theory that Rudolf was the linchpin in an anti - Bismarck scheme by the French, to set the Crown Prince up as King of Hungary (thus betraying his father) and getting an alliance with France - but that his nerve betrayed him, and that he was killed with Maria to silence the diplomatic gaffe about to be exposed. Since there are so many theories still, Mayerling was (in January 1889) the next major European crime (or world crime) mystery after Whitechapel (ends Nov. 1888?). Hence my use of the name here.

Jeff

[Pcdunn]

Great, glad I could help, Graham. Wow, what a neat story your Dad had, nice extra detail.
I've been interested in UFOs and paranormal stories since childhood, and this one about the invisibility experiment always gave me chills. I like to think there's more out there than we can know, but I admit we need to try to rule out the "normal" first.
Now I have a question for the Australians here-- is there something weird about a large rock formation (I want to say Black Rock, but may be wrong about that) and was there a story about some people at the turn of the 20th century who went on a picnic there and never came back? I think the film "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" touched a bit on this when it had the Mothership return a variety of people dressed in various historical costumes (including the five pilots from the 1950s training flight that supposedly disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle), implying the aliens were returning people they had taken away.
What is the story about the Australian rock formation? Any tips on the search terms I should use would be appreciated.
Pat D.