Franklin Ship Found

[Mayerling]

Earlier this week the New York Times reported that a submergible camera photographed the wreck or either HMS Terror or HMS Erebus from the 1845-51? lost expedition of Sir John Franklin off the coast of King William's Island in Canada's north. While it has been generally been known that Sir John died in 1847 after some illness (along with some of the 123 men in the crews) this was due to the discovery of a written statement found in 1859 by Sir Leopold McClintock's expedition (one of about a dozen British and American expeditions to find Sir John and his surviving men). Causes of death have been given asled poisoning (from imperfectly canned cans of food), starvation, extreme cold, exhaustion, and scurvy. Among some of the remains of the dead was evidence of cannibalism. Still the location of the two ships was a mystery. It turns out that accounts by Inuits as to their sinking were correct.

[GUT]

Earlier this week the New York Times reported that a submergible camera photographed the wreck or either HMS Terror or HMS Erebus from the 1845-51? lost expedition of Sir John Franklin off the coast of King William's Island in Canada's north. While it has been generally been known that Sir John died in 1847 after some illness (along with some of the 123 men in the crews) this was due to the discovery of a written statement found in 1859 by Sir Leopold McClintock's expedition (one of about a dozen British and American expeditions to find Sir John and his surviving men). Causes of death have been given asled poisoning (from imperfectly canned cans of food), starvation, extreme cold, exhaustion, and scurvy. Among some of the remains of the dead was evidence of cannibalism. Still the location of the two ships was a mystery. It turns out that accounts by Inuits as to their sinking were correct.

G'day Mayerling

Thanks I hadn't heard that but always suspected the natives would be right.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

a link, for those interested.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lost-franklin-expedition-ship-found-in-the-arctic-1.2760311

[Mayerling]

a link, for those interested.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lost...ctic-1.2760311

Thanks Sir John for the cite of a fuller account. I hope they soon can revisit the wreck to identify the actual ship. They also have to still find Franklin's grave (buried on land).

The account in the New York Times from last Monday regarded the current effect of "global warming" on the Canadian Arctic, possibly actually enabling the use of the Northwest Passage that Franklin and his doomed men discovered by accident (Sir Robert McClure and Sir Leopold McClintock on their expeditions of 1850-53 and 1857-59 laid some claims to actually finding the passage, but it was not fully navigated until 1903-05 by Roald Amundson in the "Gjoa" with a small party of men).

There is an international issue, if the passage becomes navigable, whether it is a Canadian resource only or an international one.

I find it fascinating for two reasons: The Kosminski book has been (understandably) preoccupying the attention of most historical mystery and unsolved murder mystery buffs all this time, and hidiing this fantastic Arctic discovery.

Secondly, it is now 126 years since Whitechapel, and 143 years since Franklin was last seen alive. It sort of makes one wonder about how long some historical mysteries do take for solid clues to finally pop up.

Jeff

[MayBea]

I hope they soon can revisit the wreck to identify the actual ship. They also have to still find Franklin's grave (buried on land).Jeff

Are you sure he was buried on land and not allowed to go down with his ship?

The prime minister talked about 'finding' Franklin "slumped over the helm"...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/08...n_5709575.html

[Mayerling]

Are you sure he was buried on land and not allowed to go down with his ship?

The prime minister talked about 'finding' Franklin "slumped over the helm"...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/08...n_5709575.html

I just read the statement. I have never read in any account of the Frankliin Expedition that anybody suggested Sir John's corpse or skeleton was "slumped" over the helm" or any other part of the ship. In fact, reading on the recent events, Harper seems more involved on how the discoveries can tighten Canadian sovereignty over the Northwest Passage, than simply solving the mystery of the ships and men.

[MayBea]

The only information comes from the cairn note found by Leopold McKlintock. In the margin, it says "Sir John Franklin died 11th June 1847". There's no information about his burial.

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives...in-cairn-note/

Historians believe he was buried at sea, perhaps in the ice. So I guess it's safe to speculate, especially if you're the prime minister.

[Mayerling]

The only information comes from the cairn note found by Leopold McKlintock. In the margin, it says "Sir John Franklin died 11th June 1847". There's no information about his burial.

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives...in-cairn-note/

Historians believe he was buried at sea, perhaps in the ice. So I guess it's safe to speculate, especially if you're the prime minister.

The idea that got passed around was a land burial somewhere - don't forget there are three of the crew members whose bodies were buried on King William's Island. Keep in mind too that other Arctic explorers were buried on land. The unfortunate members of Adolphus Greeley's 1882-84 expedition to Greenland were, as was Charles Francis Hall, leader of the "Proteus" Expedition of 1871 (in fact he was buried in a cave, and a century later Chauncey Loomis found the remains in a fairly good state of preservation - in fact he found traces of poison in Hall and it is now believed he died of poisoning, possibly at the hands of the ship's doctor, Dr. Emil Bessels. See Chauncey Loomis' "Weird and Tragic Shores". Hall, in his earlier Canadian explorations, sought relics from the Franklin Expedition).

Jeff

[MayBea]

Land burial, I agree, now seems likely. Here's a link where the prime minister refers to Franklin's 'grave'.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/...okak-1.2761362

They say his grave may never be found. However, I recall seeing a news report where an Inuit shows the reporter what he says is a Franklin expedition burial site according to their oral history. It even looks like it could be a burial site yet it has never been dug up.

[MayBea]

Any guesses as to which ship it is? The Terror or the Erebus?

Wiki says the one scavenged by the Inuit was likely the Terror. They found it in a cove floating in fresh ice. (An item with the initials of an able seaman of the Terror was found and given to McLintock.)

Is this the ship that was "driven ashore" on Adelaide Peninsula, and sunk with its masts showing, the one finally found found in 33 meters of water?

So, is this the Terror?

http://franklinexpedition.blogspot.c...-evidence.html

[MayBea]

Found in 11 meters of water rather, so about 36 feet.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Thanks Sir John for the cite of a fuller account. I hope they soon can revisit the wreck to identify the actual ship. They also have to still find Franklin's grave (buried on land).

The account in the New York Times from last Monday regarded the current effect of "global warming" on the Canadian Arctic, possibly actually enabling the use of the Northwest Passage that Franklin and his doomed men discovered by accident (Sir Robert McClure and Sir Leopold McClintock on their expeditions of 1850-53 and 1857-59 laid some claims to actually finding the passage, but it was not fully navigated until 1903-05 by Roald Amundson in the "Gjoa" with a small party of men).

There is an international issue, if the passage becomes navigable, whether it is a Canadian resource only or an international one.

I find it fascinating for two reasons: The Kosminski book has been (understandably) preoccupying the attention of most historical mystery and unsolved murder mystery buffs all this time, and hidiing this fantastic Arctic discovery.

Secondly, it is now 126 years since Whitechapel, and 143 years since Franklin was last seen alive. It sort of makes one wonder about how long some historical mysteries do take for solid clues to finally pop up.

Jeff

There is a private cargo ship that will try the NW passage.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1414480/first-arctic-cargo-shipped-through-the-northwest-passage

I've spent a month in the arctic circle (Igloolik), in Aug 2011. The inuits were saying that travelling, for them, is now problematic, since it gets riskier to drive snowmobiles on thinner ice in the winter.

[Mayerling]

Any guesses as to which ship it is? The Terror or the Erebus?

Wiki says the one scavenged by the Inuit was likely the Terror. They found it in a cove floating in fresh ice. (An item with the initials of an able seaman of the Terror was found and given to McLintock.)

Is this the ship that was "driven ashore" on Adelaide Peninsula, and sunk with its masts showing, the one finally found found in 33 meters of water?

So, is this the Terror?

http://franklinexpedition.blogspot.c...-evidence.html

My computer has been on the fritz this month. I am sorry about the long delay.

In the N. Y. Times on last Saturday was a small item that further examination of the discovered wreck shows it is HMS Erebus, not Terror (the companion ship).

Jeff

[MayBea]

Thanks, Jeff. It's good luck if it's indeed the flagship since that's the one Franklin sailed on. And the still-missing ship is likely in deeper water and harder to find.

The ID seems to be based on the size (Erebus a foot or a couple of feet longer and broader) and on some visible structures but I've looked at the underwater pictures and compared them to the plans of the ships and I can't make a positive ID.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...ms_erebus.html

[Dave O]

Hi Jeff and Maybea,

I got hooked on this subject last winter and am trying to learn about it and get my library up to speed. In the meantime, I've been following some awfully good blogs devoted to the Franklin Expedition. Maybe you've already come across them, but if not:

Russell Potter's blog: http://visionsnorth.blogspot.com/

William Battersby (Battersby wrote a biography of James Fitzjames that's on my to read list): http://franklinexpedition.blogspot.com/

Someone working on a model of the Terror who seems to know his business. The most recent entry is a comparison between Erebus and Terror: http://buildingterror.blogspot.com/

In the comments section of his most recent post, Professor Potter and one of his readers refer to something they've heard about an artifact having been brought up--if true, perhaps that's helped with the identification that it's Erebus that they've found. Parks Canada sees to be releasing information very gradually, we'll see.

Dave