JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[Pcdunn]

Apparently his bonus amount wasn't a deep dark secret, having been published somewhere (company newsletter?), and leads at the business went nowhere.

They also checked out people in the pageant scene, and found nothing.

[Abby Normal]

Police said that the house was maze-like. I can't see a random intruder wandering blindly around the place, sitting down and drafting ransom notes while the Ramseys were inside. If it was an intruder, then they either broke in before the Ramseys returned home, or they were already familiar with the Ramsey residence.

Was JonBenet the target or was she a means to an end? What better way to get back at the Ramseys than to kill their pride and joy. Just like everything else about this case, however, it only leads to more questions than answers. If the murderer was maliciously targeting the Ramseys, why was JonBenet's body cleaned and redressed? It would've had more shock value if her body had been left exposed. In that respect, it would tend to suggest a sadistic sexual predator. And what of the rambling ransom note? Was the intruder just creating a red herring or did he originally plan to take JonBenet before things escalated? That's the problem we have with trying to get into the mind of an unknown killer to understand their motives. Of course, people in the cover-up camp use the redressing as evidence that the Ramseys wanted to preserve JonBenet's dignity... after mercilessly strangling her and leaving her to rot in the basement.

I don't think any of the three Ramseys killed her. Admittedly, when I first approached this case I was drawn to the Burke theory but when you get down to it we have a nine year-old boy clobbering his sister and using an expertly constructed garrote to finish her off, as otherwise it implicates the parents. John & Patsy might be creepy pageant parents, but were they cold-blooded enough to viciously strangle their little girl to death to stage a murder scene? And why invent a kidnapping without disposing of the body?

Hi Harry
You bring up some interesting points about redressing. I Beleive she was found fully dressed but they found the DNA on her panties and leggings. The panties being under the leggings so at some point if the DNA was from the killer who sexually assaulted her in some way, he must have pulled her leggings back up (over the panties)!
Why do that?

[Harry D]

Apparently his bonus amount wasn't a deep dark secret, having been published somewhere (company newsletter?), and leads at the business went nowhere.

They also checked out people in the pageant scene, and found nothing.

The $118K is often cited as the strongest evidence that the Ramseys wrote the ransom note. I would have to question the logic in using a specific figure that could be tied back to them. Unless this was some kind of double-bluff but I have my doubts.

From the kidnapper's point of view, why request a relatively paltry amount? The Ramseys were millionaires. $118K was chump change for a ransom fee. The ransom note for the Lindbergh baby asked for more than that (adjusting for inflation). Had the ransom note been a hoax from the intruder, he could've demanded any ransom he wanted, but instead he went with that odd amount.

[Abby Normal]

Apparently his bonus amount wasn't a deep dark secret, having been published somewhere (company newsletter?), and leads at the business went nowhere.

They also checked out people in the pageant scene, and found nothing.

Hi pc
I Beleive his bonus was pretty much a secret as bonuses for executives usually are. And it definitely wasn't published in any company newsletter. These things are usually kept close to the vest.

[Abby Normal]

The $118K is often cited as the strongest evidence that the Ramseys wrote the ransom note. I would have to question the logic in using a specific figure that could be tied back to them. Unless this was some kind of double-bluff but I have my doubts.

From the kidnapper's point of view, why request a relatively paltry amount? The Ramseys were millionaires. $118K was chump change for a ransom fee. The ransom note for the Lindbergh baby asked for more than that (adjusting for inflation). Had the ransom note been a hoax from the intruder, he could've demanded any ransom he wanted, but instead he went with that odd amount.

Yes it is an odd amount 118k!?! Whether an intruder or parents they knew the amount of the bonus. It's the strongest lead IMHO.

[louisa]

The intruder theory holds no water. Christmas night and there's snow outside. Most people are at home or visiting others. This guy chooses Christmas night to do his evil deeds? It's unlikely.

There was no sexual assault. This was part of the staging to look like a sexual assault had taken place. A half hearted attempt by people who didn't really want to do it but felt it was necessary to cast suspicion away from themselves. Hence blood in her pants. (I hate the word 'panties')

The garotting was intended to look like the intruder had done it. Patsy and John thought Jonbenet was dead already.

Incidentally Burke was more than capable of inflicting a serious head wound. Jonbenet had already needed stitches in her head after he hit her with a golf club a year earlier.


Someone (Wickerman?) stated that John wrote the note and if he didn't write it then neither of them did. Is that not the most ridiculous sentence EVER?



My belief is that the Ramseys returned from the party and went to bed. Jonbenet and Burke got up to play with the toys they hadn't really had a chance to play with earlier (because they went to the party).

Burke got the pineapple from the fridge and they probably both ate some.

Then Burke accidentally walloped JonBenet with something - probably accidentally. He could tell she was badly injured and called his parents, who thought JonBenet was dead. Then the panic set in. Do they call 911 and admit their daughter had been killed by one of their own, or hold off and think what to do?

They decided to stage an intruder/kidnapping. They had all the time in the world to compose the note, take JonBenet down to the basement and garott her, even making it look like there had been some sexual interference. They then set the scene as best they could, getting rid of any superfluous bits of tape and the first attempts at a ransom note. Their belongings were never searched. Why would they be?

Then they rang the police. They gave Burke strict instructions not to speak to anybody, even if a police person came into his room. They got him out of the house at the first available opportunity.


The $118K was the kind of amount that Patsy would think a kidnapper would ask for - not millions but enough to make an ordinary low-paid person think he was rich. The amount was spinning around in her head already because it had been John's bonus.

[Pcdunn]

Hi pc
I Beleive his bonus was pretty much a secret as bonuses for executives usually are. And it definitely wasn't published in any company newsletter. These things are usually kept close to the vest.

Hi, Abby,

My source about the bonus being published was from one of the recent TV docs, possibly NBC's Dateline, which aired earlier this month.

The thing is, the info is conflicting. Was the DNA in her underpants from saliva, or semen? There was very little snow, it's said, but a single boot print was found in some. The broken paintbrush came from Patsy's paint kit, but the other piece wasn't found, nor rest of the nylon parachute cord, nor a roll of duct tape matching what John removed from his daughter's mouth. Where did the big flashlight and the suitcase under the window come from, as the Ramseys denied that those items belonged in the house?

And why call friends over if you know your dead daughter is in the basement?

Strangeness all around...

[Wickerman]

One thing I think hasn't been discussed before is the amount.
Whoever wrote that 118k amount knew about johns bonus.

Aboviously patsy knew and perhaps a couple of people from work. Where the work folks checked out?

Who else would have known? Did he tell any of his close friends?

The killer knew his bonus amount.

I assumed the police checked the people at work, as like you I thought that was an obvious first step. I never found anything to indicate they did.
It's hard to imagine they wouldn't.

[Wickerman]

Someone (Wickerman?) stated that John wrote the note and if he didn't write it then neither of them did. Is that not the most ridiculous sentence EVER?

As you wrote it then yes, it does sound ridiculous, but if you had written what I wrote then no, it doesn't.

Try reading it again...

My view then is, if John did not write it - and I understand he was definitely ruled out, then neither of them wrote it.

Which simply points out that John is the better choice between the two, and John would have known this. Given his education, temperament, and status as a successful businessman this is not a task he will leave to Patsy She is the one in pieces over the death, accidental or not, of her prize daughter.

They decided to stage an intruder/kidnapping. They had all the time in the world to compose the note, take JonBenet down to the basement and garott her, even making it look like there had been some sexual interference. They then set the scene as best they could, getting rid of any superfluous bits of tape and the first attempts at a ransom note.

They had all the time in the world to hide the body, or at least move it out of the house.

They gave Burke strict instructions not to speak to anybody, even if a police person came into his room. They got him out of the house at the first available opportunity.

Yes, to live with friends where he could easily let something slip about hitting JonBenet after an argument - listen....the best of the best in the American government can't keep a secret for long, why would you expect a 9 year old child to do that?
It isn't going to happen, and he was interviewed without his parents, still nothing.

[Pcdunn]

Burke's interviews are very interesting. Some weeks after the finding of the body, he was interviewed by a child psychologist (at the insistence of his parents). Asked if he had any secrets, he responded, "No... Well, I probably do, but I wouldn't tell YOU!"
Also during that interview, he drew a picture of his family and left JBR out. Asked why, he said something along the lines of well, she's gone.

His first interview with the police was eighteen months later, when he was 11 years old. By then, he had probably been told repeatedly by his parents to keep mum about that night, and mostly did so.

[louisa]

Well it did happen. Burke was protected right from the start. He was given his orders and he said nothing. If he had been interviewed by the police then the story would have been different.


Btw you are being rather pedantic by saying your sentence and my slight mis-quote have different meanings. You stated that neither wrote the ransom note if John did not write it.

I still think that is an idiotic assumption.

You are making a number of assumptions. Patsy is the 'one in pieces'. Were you there? I doubt if John Ramsey was feeling on top form that night either, after finding his daughter dead (or so he probably thought).

The note, according to friends of the Ramseys had all the hallmarks of Patsy's hand. She was constantly writing loquacious notes to friends with a Sharpie pen.

Personally I think John would have left the writing to Patsy. Although he was a businessman I think that it was Patsy who wore the trousers in that household. He was under her thumb.

I have an idea that it was Patsy who was the one who made the decision to cover up the death of JonBenet by making it look as though a kidnapper had been in the house. John, the mild mannered man that he was, may have wanted to call the emergency services immediately but Patsy talked him out of it. And he went along with her scheme. She wanted to write the note and he let her, just reading it through afterwards, maybe.

I don't know if this is true or not but am I right in thinking that John, now free from the shackles of Patsy, is currently living the high life with a cocktail waitress in Vegas?

[louisa]

PC Dunn - I tend to agree with you.

[Wickerman]

I still go back and forth with the solution here. Many things support the notion that the parents would cover up for their son, especially if they cared excessively about appearances, and keeping scandal from the media.

If John & Patsy decided to fabricate an intruder, it is bizarre that they would create an entry via a broken window, and then tell police John broke that himself some time ago.
Anyone in their position is going to say nothing about that and just let the police believe the intruder broke the window, it fits in with their deception.

[Harry D]

The intruder theory holds no water. Christmas night and there's snow outside. Most people are at home or visiting others. This guy chooses Christmas night to do his evil deeds? It's unlikely.

What if he was a loner?

There was no sexual assault. This was part of the staging to look like a sexual assault had taken place. A half hearted attempt by people who didn't really want to do it but felt it was necessary to cast suspicion away from themselves. Hence blood in her pants. (I hate the word 'panties')

Were the Ramseys so depraved that after finding their daughter with a head injury they not only strangled her with a ligature but sexually assaulted her corpse to cover it up? Does that seem like a natural reaction? JonBenet was Patsy's pride and joy, she lived vicariously through the girl. This just doesn't fly right.

The garotting was intended to look like the intruder had done it. Patsy and John thought Jonbenet was dead already.

If they thought she was already dead, why did they need to strangle her? Couldn't an intruder have inflicted a head injury? And why didn't they simply lie and claim she fell down the stairs rather than concoct this elaborate, bewildering lie?

Incidentally Burke was more than capable of inflicting a serious head wound. Jonbenet had already needed stitches in her head after he hit her with a golf club a year earlier.

I don't doubt that Burke could've inflicted the head injury. It's everything afterwards that doesn't stack up.

The $118K was the kind of amount that Patsy would think a kidnapper would ask for - not millions but enough to make an ordinary low-paid person think he was rich.

And when it was discovered that $118K was the same amount as John's yearly bonus, the suspicion would shift back to the Ramseys. Not a smart move considering they could've fabricated any ransom fee they liked.

[Abby Normal]

Just to reiterate. If Burke did it, knew his parents did, or saw anything out of the ordinary that night that might have implicated them, there is NO WAY in heck his parents would let him talk to anyone! Especially since even they would not cooperate with police.

Also, I've seen his interviews when he was a kid and there is absolutely nothing, nothing that indicates guilt or knowledge of what happened. He seemed like a normal clueless kid trying to deal with the death of his sister.

He probably did sleep through the whole thing and was totally clueless.IMHO of course.