JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[Shelley]

Back to JonBenet

The semen dna sample found in JonBenet's underwear did not mach these people :

1. JonBenet's father " John Ramsey "

2. JonBenet's mother " Patsy Ramsey "

3. JonBenet's brother " Burke Ramsey ".

other relatives to JonBenet like a half sister and brothers from John Ramsey's previous marriage before he married patsy were out of town and can be accounted for, so are not suspects in her case.

[Shelley]

Hi tji,

Someone who knew the Ramsey's and saw that christmas message ~ that is a possibility. The other one is that obviously from this christmas message patsy ( presumably ) if not john as well has used that phrase previously with other writings that the killer is aware of already, the ransom note as far as i can tell was an attempt to try and incriminate patsy ramsey anyway. i do get the impression that most written invitations, cards, letters etc for friends, acquaintances and family was done by patsy anyway.

[tji]

Hi Shelley

This DNA has been done by touch DNA which, to me, is not very reliable given the circumstances of her death, a lot of cross contamination could have happened before this technology came into place.

It could have been by a cough or sneeze, cross contamination or a factor of things if I understand correctly. So it can't be said with certainty that the DNA was the killer's.

(Unless I have missed something recently)

[Shelley]

Useful Site for Info

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682454/Burke%20Ramsey

[Shelley]

Hi tji,
No mistake this time tji of dna contamination as you've stated, , it was not contaminated dna sample, as i mentioned before, it was not dna that gets on items from factory handing of underwear. it's new dna pointing to a killer of JonBenet.

[Shelley]

Burke Ramsey Brother

At the time of JonBenet's death her brother Burke Ramsey was only 9 years of age, he could not have possibly produced a semen samle in his sister's knickers / underwear.

Some info : Boys develop on different schedules according to their inborn design. Things can happen at different ages.
Boys can have erections at all ages. Even infants get them. In puberty, frequency of erections increase, and they sometimes occur for no reason at all, as if the penis is saying "Hey, look at me! I'm ready for action!"
Another development in puberty is when boys gain the ability to ejaculate. The fluid that comes out is called semen. Often the first few times a boy ejaculates, the semen will not have all the ingredients and it will appear transparent. Later the other ingredients add in and the semen will gain its milky or pearly opaque color.
The sperm is one of the ingredients in the semen, the part that makes babies. The sperm may be present in the semen before the white color appears.
These changes occur in boys between the ages of 12 and 16, with a wide variation. Some boys may start even later.

[Shelley]

Losing Focus ~ Ransom Note

To always be looking at a letter as a main factor, rather than real evidence and common sense extras that will be SUPPORTIVE of the factual Evidence regarding the case of JonBenet Ramsey killing, will only result in an armchair comforting discussion, rather than towards what police work and actual murder cases are about. I believe that's what the British police have always done, regarding Jon Benet and the denver police, well this does strike me as * Something other * than what a British Police force would do. JTR is after all a thoroughly British case after all, a historical one, but a very British one at that in history. Personally i wouldn't spend too much time on the letter, a little curiosity perhaps, but not as much time on that letter as time on other factors that MAKE in all DUE RESPECT a Reasonable discussion and mention, as a case.

[Shelley]

On Average

On Average boys aged 9 years old cannot produce semen, erections yes, but not semen. After all Girls do not produce periods from eggs until around age 12- 13 yrs old on average. On average means that this is a common factor, not a rare one, or indeed an anomaly.

[tji]

Hi Shelley

Ok so found the the DNA you were talking about, If I understand it correctly it is quite controversial evidence. Nothing but minute pieces of DNA mixed in her blood.

There is no providence for it, no-one knows how it got there and the fact is it is so minute and lacks enough markers to even get a conviction in court, even if someone fit the profile.

[tji]

To always be looking at a letter as a main factor, rather than real evidence and common sense extras that will be SUPPORTIVE of the factual Evidence regarding the case of JonBenet Ramsey killing, will only result in an armchair comforting discussion, rather than towards what police work and actual murder cases are about. I believe that's what the British police have always done, regarding Jon Benet and the denver police, well this does strike me as * Something other * than what a British Police force would do. JTR is after all a thoroughly British case after all, a historical one, but a very British one at that in history. Personally i wouldn't spend too much time on the letter, a little curiosity perhaps, but not as much time on that letter as time on other factors that MAKE in all DUE RESPECT a Reasonable discussion and mention, as a case.

But it is ok to use barely there DNA as proof positive they were innocent?

The letter at least is a physical characteristic of the case, do I use this solely to question the innocence of the Ramsey's - no, but I do accept it is part of the case.
The letter is common sense. It is tangible evidence given at the time, found at the scene.

[tji]

Ok let's look at factual evidence -

The letter was from a pad from Patsy's notepad.
The ink is the same type as found as a pen found with the pad.
Paintbrush found with Jonbenet was from box from the house.
No sign of forced entry.
The body was found on the premises near a window that has been put forward as entry/exit to the house, later Police video evidence however shows a cobweb across the window showing this has not been used.

So the whole epicentre of the case centers and stays around the Ramsey residence, nothing ever takes us away from here.

If you are going to kidnap someone you will take your own ransom letter, you wouldn't hope to find something to use at the residence.
You wouldn't (I hope) just waltz in a secured property and waltz back out undetected (all windows etc were locked).

[Shelley]

Ok tji the letter has no bearing other than Patsy & John ramsey's say so of a time frame at the crime scene, i agree some consideration tji with the letter i didn't however say a total disregard for it, however my point was not to spend too much time regarding something so flimsy, especially if you view patsy ramsey as a suspect in the murder, then your tangible evidence doesn't become so tangible after all.

DNA = Evidence and also solid tangible evidence.

[Shelley]

Ok let's look at factual evidence -

The letter was from a pad from Patsy's notepad.
The ink is the same type as found as a pen found with the pad.
Paintbrush found with Jonbenet was from box from the house.
No sign of forced entry.
The body was found on the premises near a window that has been put forward as entry/exit to the house, later Police video evidence however shows a cobweb across the window showing this has not been used.

So the whole epicentre of the case centers and stays around the Ramsey residence, nothing ever takes us away from here.

If you are going to kidnap someone you will take your own ransom letter, you wouldn't hope to find something to use at the residence.
You wouldn't (I hope) just waltz in a secured property and waltz back out undetected (all windows etc were locked).

1. So the notepad came from inside the house, it's not unusual for her notepad to be in her own house ~ However, it is unusual to try to incriminate oneself, that's just Barmy!
2. So the pen is owned by the same person same as the pad, what's so special abut that one tji? About as special as the notepad regarding evidence.
3. why would evidence be needed for forced entry when it showed easy access to gain entry by someone from outside? The house was not secure anyway, so no need to create a means of a forced entry, access was already there, had there not been easy ready access available, maybe, just maybe a case of forced entry would have shown itself at the time of the girl's death.

The fact remains that the Denver police did not cover everything with a missing girl, believed to have run off at first, then believed at a later time, within a few hours to have possibly been kidnapped, even when they thought Jonbenet had been kidnapped they did not search the house properly for a forced entry, indeed they did not check for a forced entry because at first they believed she may just have taken off somewhere and worried her parents and the police.

[Shelley]

Broken Window ~ Cobweb

1.The Denver police didn't even check for possible forced entry when Jonbenet's body was found with rigor mortis set in, infact they did not even seal off the crime scene properly by a crime scene procedure for a murder, that's why it was a shoddy mess! Especially in view that this same procedure would be necessary for a burglary and this was Christmas time, lots of theft around that time " Christmas ", so what were the Denver police doing?

2. The cobweb found with the broken window, the same spider that spun that web that was found with the broken window, did not spin webs at that particular frame of time, in the winter, so it was a time frame placed a lot earlier such as the spring and summer time, so John Ramsey's statement that he had broken a window during the spring/summer time period rings a true statement because it was backed up by the cobweb and the type of spider that spun it.

3. Anyone is capable of writing a letter or ransom note, other than the Ramsey's themselves.

[Shelley]

Ransom Note ~ Police with excuses at Denver!

The Denver police were aware of a ransom note, so with a missing girl and the mother patsy in her phone call to the police and before the Denver Colorado police arrived at the scene of the reported kidnapping of JonBenet, it's the police and their darn excuses that JonBenet may have ran off to play somewhere or be with a nearby friend, because in all factual EVIDENCES between a report to the police and crime scene handling, the Denver Colorado police couldn't be bothered with the Ramsey case!

ONE PHONE CALL TO THE POLICE FROM THE MOTHER ~ I Have a Ransom Note and my daughter is gone.

1. Report to Police, Ransom note taken your daughter, kidnapping, money mention & Pickup.

2. Daughter not at home, missing.

3. Crime scene searched 7 sealed for a kidnapping not done by Denver police from the very start.

So excuse me for falling in one comment just for a moment, that the police excuse of the girl running off playing somewhere or with a friend, shows she was not cared for properly by police in her area.