JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[Harry D]

Louisa, I see little point in continuing this discussion with someone who will not listen to reason and blithely dismisses well-established medical protocol. You believe that the Ramseys did it and you'll work backwards from that conclusion, bending the pieces until they fit. If it wasn't Patsy, it must be Burke, etc. Patsy was a panicking mess, and yet she was sociopathic enough to concoct a ransom letter on the fly and stage an elaborate murder scene, constructing a special torture device instead of a makeshift ligature. These are not the actions of a distressed mother trying to cover up the accidental death of her daughter. I've conceded that the Ramseys might have been responsible, but the nature of the circumstances would have to be vastly different to the one you are espousing.

[louisa]

Louisa, I see little point in continuing this discussion with someone who will not listen to reason and blithely dismisses well-established medical protocol. You believe that the Ramseys did it and you'll work backwards from that conclusion, bending the pieces until they fit. If it wasn't Patsy, it must be Burke, etc. Patsy was a panicking mess, and yet she was sociopathic enough to concoct a ransom letter on the fly and stage an elaborate murder scene, constructing a special torture device instead of a makeshift ligature. These are not the actions of a distressed mother trying to cover up the accidental death of her daughter. I've conceded that the Ramseys might have been responsible, but the nature of the circumstances would have to be vastly different to the one you are espousing.

Nobody is asking you to continue this discussion, Harry, it's entirely up to you.

Maybe you could try looking at it from my perspective - that's it is you and Wicksy who will not listen to reason.

What "well established medical protocol" am I dismissing?

And by the way - have you seen that idiotic ransom note Patsy concocted "on the fly"?

[louisa]

http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/the-case-against-john-ramsey.html

John Ramsey (on the plane trip):

"Patsy and I heard that Mike Archuleta was subpoenaed to testify, and I knew he would clarify one of the urban legends that had been floated by the media, if he were asked. They had reported that I had called Mike early on the morning of December 26, 1996, to arrange a hasty trip to Atlanta. Of course, that wasn't true. I had called Mike to tell him what had happened."(p. 324)

This is a classic John Ramsey half truth. No, John's call that morning didn't involve a hasty trip to Atlanta. But his call around 1:30 PM, after the body had been found, did involve making arrangements for just such a trip. John has nothing to say about that call, of course. As for the "urban legend" that John made an attempt to fly out of Boulder as soon as possible after the murder had been discovered, sorry that's no urban legend, but a fact. The book would have given him an opportunity to explain why that call was made, but it's easier to simply deny it ever happened, so that's what he did.

[Wickerman]

How many times have I got to say this? The DNA was from people who handled the clothing in the factory where they were made.

You have not explained how this same employee worked at two different factories.

No you gave a link to a case that had NO similarity to the JonBenet case.

Happily it is not your interpretation of what is similar that matters. You don't even seem to know what constitutes rape, so how could you possibly determine the similarity between sexually perverted crimes.
Only a better education in that field will help you.

[Wickerman]

Have you any idea how idiotic your above post is?

YES falls in bathrooms do happen - my mother had one recently.

By way of interest then, just how large was your mothers skull fracture?

If you had been reading my prior posts you would see that I stated Patsy could have pushed JB so hard that she fell against the washbasin or bathtub, thus causing the head trauma.

You appear to think this head trauma was nothing more than a large bruise.

Whether JB's head was hit with a hard object or she hit her head on a hard object, the resultant head trauma would have been the same. It depends how hard she was pushed.

Thats the point, it isn't the same.
A person cannot hit their head against a hard object enough to cause an 8 1/2 inch split in their skull unless they fall from a great height.
Perhaps your understanding of the laws of physics needs to be expanded?

By the way, her head was NOT split in two; she had a rectangular hole in her skull.

Really?, it looks like her skull is split across to me.

This was no slip, push or fall accident.

[Wickerman]

Where the heck did you get THAT theory from?

You've invented a cylinder now and that JB's arms were around it!

Do you not think that the investigators would have known if that had happened?

Your theories are getting more hilarious by the minute.

I suspect your biggest obstacle is your lack of knowledge in this field.

Quote:
"Items found on the floor of the garage, as well as on the steps leading to the building's basement, lead security officers to the victim, who had been tied to an old water heater in a remote storage room".
Kidnapping, an investigators guide to profiling, D. M. Concannon, 2008, p.205.
(my bold)



Here is the Ramsey's water heater.


Being tied around any large object will result in the same extension of cord between her hands.

[louisa]

You have not explained how this same employee worked at two different factories.

I said the fibres could have been in the tumble drier, which is a very likely scenario.

Happily it is not your interpretation of what is similar that matters. You don't even seem to know what constitutes rape, so how could you possibly determine the similarity between sexually perverted crimes.
Only a better education in that field will help you.

You still think JonBenet was raped?

I keep asking you to SHOW ME a link that says JonBenet was raped. JONBENET WAS NOT RAPED!

You have hundreds of websites to choose from.

[louisa]

By way of interest then, just how large was your mothers skull fracture?

You appear to think this head trauma was nothing more than a large bruise.

My mother was not pushed and her head did not connect with the side of the bathtub.

You say some idiotic things Wicksy. JonBenet's skull had a large rectangular hole in it. How many times have I said that?

Thats the point, it isn't the same.
A person cannot hit their head against a hard object enough to cause an 8 1/2 inch split in their skull unless they fall from a great height.
Perhaps your understanding of the laws of physics needs to be expanded?

Well it has been the theory of several investigators who have studied this case. Steve Thomas took advice of experts before he published his theory of what could have happened on that night and I happen to agree that it sounded plausible.

However, if you are a scientist then I will have to bow to your expertise.

This was no slip, push or fall accident.

And you are an expert on such matters?

[Wickerman]

I said the fibres could have been in the tumble drier, which is a very likely scenario.

I am talking about DNA, ...and you are talking about fibers.
Do you know the difference?

You still think JonBenet was raped?

I keep asking you to SHOW ME a link that says JonBenet was raped. JONBENET WAS NOT RAPED!

You have hundreds of websites to choose from.

I gave you the only type of website that matters. Perhaps you need to apply a little discrimination in your choice of websites?

[louisa]

I suspect your biggest obstacle is your lack of knowledge in this field.

Quote:
"Items found on the floor of the garage, as well as on the steps leading to the building's basement, lead security officers to the victim, who had been tied to an old water heater in a remote storage room".
Kidnapping, an investigators guide to profiling, D. M. Concannon, 2008, p.205.
(my bold)



Here is the Ramsey's water heater.


Being tied around any large object will result in the same extension of cord between her hands.

Nice picture of the Ramseys water heater but it has NO RELEVANCE to the murder of JonBenet.

Your quote about the "victim being tied to an old water heater" does not relate to JonBenet but to an entirely different case.



You've got to do better than that.
.

[louisa]

I gave you the only type of website that matters. Perhaps you need to apply a little discrimination in your choice of websites?

So you've been unable to come up with a website that says JonBenet was raped?

I thought not, because...... IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! JONBENET WAS NOT RAPED!



Wicksy - a bit of advice. If you want to retain a vestige of credibility I would strongly advise you not to persist in saying JB was raped because just about everyone on the planet (who knows anything about this case) knows that she wasn't.

[louisa]

Some interesting facts.....

Detective Linda Arndt, the only police officer on the scene in the hours prior to the discovery of the body at 1:05 p.m., remembers Mr. Ramsey’s demeanor when he initially greeted her as not distraught nor even upset, but cordial.

Arndt says that the Ramseys did not spend those morning hours in each other’s company, but that Patsy stayed in the sunroom with friends and John stayed mostly in his den, and read his mail in the kitchen

Arndt says that 10 a.m., the ransom note deadline, passed unnoticed. She says that the Ramseys did not remark whatsoever regarding the fact that the kidnapper had not called.

Arndt says that she asked the Ramseys and their friends to examine the ransom note for clues, and that almost everyone offered ideas to her except Mr. Ramsey.

Linda Arndt says that she was confused about why the Ramseys would not speak to her. They later refused a formal interview,

[Wickerman]

Nice picture of the Ramseys water heater but it has NO RELEVANCE to the murder of JonBenet.

Your quote about the "victim being tied to an old water heater" does not relate to JonBenet but to an entirely different case.



You've got to do better than that.
.

Where did I say that quote had anything to do with the Ramsey case?
you seem to have trouble following a simple argument.

[Wickerman]

So you've been unable to come up with a website that says JonBenet was raped?

I thought not, because...... IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! JONBENET WAS NOT RAPED!



Wicksy - a bit of advice. If you want to retain a vestige of credibility I would strongly advise you not to persist in saying JB was raped because just about everyone on the planet (who knows anything about this case) knows that she wasn't.

As I just said in my last reply, you seem to have trouble following a simple argument.

The sexual act committed on the body of JonBenet falls under the category of rape.
Your initial objection that led you down this path was to argue that a local rapist was not responsible - because, in your opinion, she was not raped.

The sexual acts which fall under the legal category of Rape include what was done to JonBenet.

[Pcdunn]

Kidnap, sexual assault on a child, and murder case in 2012

And there is no point in trying to find similarities between the JonBenet case and any other, because there has been no other child molester, before or after, who is also a kidnapper and a murderer!

Louisa,
There was a Colorado case in 2012 of a young man who abducted a 10-year old girl from the sidewalk on her way to school, sexually assaulted her, then murdered her and dismembered her corpse.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-colorado-murder-idUSBRE89T1RR20121030

The child victim's name was Jessica Ridgeway.