JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[louisa]

Yes, and there was saliva found on JBR's underpants NOT matched to a Ramsey family member. It's mentioned in the report posted earlier in this thread. A detective (armchair or otherwise) needs to consider ALL evidence, not ignore items that don't suit his/her pet theory.

That's true enough Pat, but the DNA that was found on JB's underpants was shown to have come from a factory worker where the pants had been made.

[louisa]

agreed, and if she wrote it, it then follows she was either guilty or complicit in what happened. I think very likely John was at least complicit. There are a few scenarios that are possible where the ramseys are not guilty, but covering for someone else, although these are unlikely to me. (she was killed in some sex game gone wrong somewhere else that the ramseys knew about, meaning they were involved in the seedy underworld of padeophilia).

but still think much more likely she was killed accidentally by patsy. the simplest explanation with the least leaps required imo.

Exactly. Either by Patsy or by the son, Burke.

I've thoroughly explored the intruder theory and all bits of so-called evidence can be discounted or explained.

I don't think the Ramseys were paedophiles. I never got those vibes from them. However, they were covering up, either for themselves or for their son.

[louisa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl5Ll3sLFs8

[Pcdunn]

Wrong, I think...

That's true enough Pat, but the DNA that was found on JB's underpants was shown to have come from a factory worker where the pants had been made.

No, the DNA found on her underwear came from "an unidentified male who wasn't a member of the Ramsey family", and it is still unidentified.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/184279-what-dna-evidence-was-there-in-the-jonbenet-ramsey-case-its-a-controversial-aspect

However, I have heard the idea about "touch DNA" on the outside of her long-johns could have come from a worker at the packaging factory. They are two different kinds of DNA.

[louisa]

The DNA found on JB's clothing could have come from anywhere.

It states 'her panty' in this article.

http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/09/19/jonbenet-ramsey-dna-found-killer-case-of-murder-investigation-evidence/#

Clothes were put into the tumble drier on the landing outside JB's bedroom, including the white blanket found on her body. The housekeeper stated that other people (from her own family) used to use JB's room and sleep in her bed and the adjoining one when the family was away.

The bottom line is that no evidence of an intruder has even been found. Nobody has ever been arrested for this crime.

No similar crime has ever been committed, before or after, this one. The killer's modus operandii has never been seen, or heard of, since.

Even if - IF - a tiny piece of unidentified DNA was found, that doesn't weigh much on the scales when weighed against the mountain of circumstancial evidence which points directly to the parents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl5Ll3sLFs8

They look as relaxed as if they were being interviewed about the theft of a sandwich at a picnic.

If I was being asked about the horrific death of my beloved 6 year old daughter - killed in her own home by a sadistic sexual pervert - I would be crying. I wouldn't be able to talk normally and smile.

[Harry D]

(she was killed in some sex game gone wrong somewhere else that the ramseys knew about, meaning they were involved in the seedy underworld of padeophilia).

This is the 'inside job' theory that makes the most sense to me, but it's one hell of an allegation and would take some proving.

[louisa]

But it makes no real sense does it? A sex game involving a child who is unconscious?

She had the head trauma before the garrotting.

[Harry D]

Neither does a mother torturing her daughter to death after an accidental head injury.

[louisa]

Neither does a mother torturing her daughter to death after an accidental head injury.

Harry - you haven't been reading my posts property have you?

Nowhere have I EVER stated that Patsy tortured her daughter.

I gave the scenario whereby Patsy had pushed JB and JB had fallen against a hard surface. Patsy, thinking she was dead, panicked and instead of calling 911 decided to stage the scene.

JonBenet was UNCONSCIOUS and would never wake up from that blow. The staging, including the garrotting, happened afterwards.

Or my other theory - Burke accidentally, or maybe on purpose, hit JB over the head and then did the other things. Nine year old boys are sexually curious. Then the parents staged the murder and kidnap scene.

Don't ask me why they (or anyone else) would want a murder to look like a kidnapping, or a kidnapping to look like a murder, but that is what happened.

No torture was involved in this murder (because the girl was unconscious from that first blow) and if adults were involved I do not believe there was a sexual motive.

[Harry D]

No torture was involved in this murder (because the girl was unconscious from that first blow) and if adults were involved I do not believe there was a sexual motive.

It makes no difference that JonBenet was unconscious when she was garroted. She still would've suffered from air hunger, which is why people on life support are given morphine once they turn off the ventilator.

[louisa]

It makes no difference that JonBenet was unconscious when she was garroted. She still would've suffered from air hunger, which is why people on life support are given morphine once they turn off the ventilator.

Air hunger? Are you trying to tell me that this 'intruder' (who left no trace of himself and has never done anything remotely like this again) got a thrill from garrotting a girl who was already comatose?

Give me a break! You're in fantasy land now.

Harry - my sister was not given morphine when the intensive care nurse turned off her ventilator. My sister was comatose so needed no further medication.

[Wickerman]

That's true enough Pat, but the DNA that was found on JB's underpants was shown to have come from a factory worker where the pants had been made.

"shown to have come from a factory worker"

Are you sure you don't want to change that statement, just a little?

If that was true they would have a name, so guess what my next question is going to be.

[louisa]

"shown to have come from a factory worker"

Are you sure you don't want to change that statement, just a little?

If that was true they would have a name, so guess what my next question is going to be.

"What's for tea, nurse?"

Would that be it?


I presume he didn't mean a precise individual, just a factory worker.

[Wickerman]

However, I have heard the idea about "touch DNA" on the outside of her long-johns could have come from a worker at the packaging factory. They are two different kinds of DNA.

The reason we hear so much about the DNA from the panties, and the DNA from the leggings, on BOTH sides of the waist band I might add.
Is because they match, they are the same (as you know).

So, if one sample came from a factory worker (which was merely a guess), then both samples came from the same factory worker - and the police would have a name (Louisa forgot about that obvious point).
The articles did not come from the same manufacturer.

Which means contamination is ruled out.
A significant problem for "The Patsy did it" crowd.

[Wickerman]

No similar crime has ever been committed, before or after, this one. The killer's modus operandii has never been seen, or heard of, since.

What similar crime have John & Patsy ever been involved with, before or after?

Family, friends and neighbors have all testified to how caring and protective Patsy was over JB, and John has always been the perfect father & provider.

Yet, a similar sexual assault was committed in the same neighborhood in the months after JB's murder.