JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[louisa]

no they were not. They also didn't seem to be comforting each other in the myriad of interviews Ive seen, nor shedding any tears.Unlike the hundreds of other interviews ive seen of berieved parents.

Yes, I noticed that as well. John's expression, when he looks at Patsy, is not one of pity or understanding. I don't think they're even holding hands.

I forgot to mention John's blatant lie.....On three separate occasions he was asked the same question. The first officer on the scene, Officer French, asked if the house had been secure the night before to which John stated Yes, he had been round the house checking the windows and doors. French wrote this is his notebook.

The two other investigators in the house (Arndt and the other one, forgotten his name but I can look it up) also separately asked John the same question to which he gave the same reply.

John later denied saying this.

[Pcdunn]

I checked on John to see what has happened since the case and Patsy's death.

https://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-Suffering-JonBenet-Journey/dp/0892963859/ref=sr_1_1/157-9044921-8411547?ie=UTF8&qid=1475016190&sr=8-1&keywords=john+ramsey+book

Did you folks know he was briefly married to Natalee Holloway's mother, after Patsy died? He said they drawn together because of understanding each other's grief, but it failed as she was behind him in the grieving process. Interesting.

He is now married to a fashion designer near his own age. (Fourth wife, I believe.)

[Wickerman]

I totally agree with the enhancement nonsense as I've mentioned before. However, I can't discount what the 911 operator said. She makes no doubt that she heard patsy tone change and that she thought she was faking.

I've played a variety of video's and documentary's which include that phone recording and not once have I been able to hear the words reported by the operator, like "what do we do now" or anything similar, nor a change in voice tone. In fact one of the analysts also said he couldn't hear those words either.

I wonder if she is romancing.

[Abby Normal]

I've played a variety of video's and documentary's which include that phone recording and not once have I been able to hear the words reported by the operator, like "what do we do now" or anything similar, nor a change in voice tone. In fact one of the analysts also said he couldn't hear those words either.

I wonder if she is romancing.

Perhaps Wicky perhaps. I thought of that also. As I did if she was influenced by the prevalent police view, who I assume worked in th same building as her.

But Forget about the enhancements. We both agree on that. You can't here anything on the recording. But I can't discount the fact what the 911 said what SHE HEARD LIVE.

I would also add that the 911 operator in the interview was very emotional in recalling this. She said she felt something was amiss then with Patsy, and that to this day something still is amiss. She very strongly feels Patsy was lying.

And that's not anything to do with the recording analysis.

[Wickerman]

This garrott was NOT an intricate device but a piece of cord and a broken end of an artist's paintbrush.

It is the style of knot around the stick that makes it intricate, c/w the fact the killer tied a small noose at the other end of the cord. Whomever designed this garrotte made a specific type of garrotte, not an everyday simple device for strangling. This garrotte was of a style used by sexual abusers, those who torture their victims by strangling then loosening, then reapplying, again and again.
The lines around her neck show this garrotte was applied over and over again.

Just because nobody has ever heard of a 9 year old doing this before does not mean Burke Ramsey was incapable of it.

This is an implement created for a purpose other than taking her life.

The FBI analysed the recording and can probably hear the background sounds A LOT more clearly than we can hear it on our computer speakers. I think that the FBI may have given the tape to NASA to see if they could make it clearer (I could be wrong on this point). I seem to recollect them doing so.

When you state "Other sources" can you, in future, give us the names of these other sources?

The official enhanced tape has never been released by the Boulder Police.
Bob Grant, a former District Attorney, and a consultant on the Ramsey case, has heard the enhanced tape, he stated:
"Even the enhanced tape is far from clear, (on the issue of Burke's voice, he says), some say it's Burke, some say 'I don't know', some say it may not even be a voice".

It took me a while to find the source, look on YouTube for the "Dateline, 2016, Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey". This piece is about 43 minutes into the video.

Charles Brennan, an investigative reporter has seen documents from the Boulder Police that show more DNA was found on JonBenet's body, and on some of the articles of evidence. Mary Lacey knew about this extra DNA evidence when she wrote the letter which exonerated the Ramsey's, but she made no mention of it in the letter.
Reference to this extra DNA is towards the end of the same video, about 1 hour 14 minutes into the video.

[Abby Normal]

Yes, I noticed that as well. John's expression, when he looks at Patsy, is not one of pity or understanding. I don't think they're even holding hands.

I forgot to mention John's blatant lie.....On three separate occasions he was asked the same question. The first officer on the scene, Officer French, asked if the house had been secure the night before to which John stated Yes, he had been round the house checking the windows and doors. French wrote this is his notebook.

The two other investigators in the house (Arndt and the other one, forgotten his name but I can look it up) also separately asked John the same question to which he gave the same reply.

John later denied saying this.

One of the first investigators on the scene said she checked to make sure she had her gun on her as she thought that the killer, ie., Jon Ramsey, was still in the house. She said this in response to the fact that as soon as he was asked to walk around the house to find other clues, he made a beeline to the room in the basement and found the body and carried it upstairs.

[louisa]

Yes that's right.

She also said that John was 'missing' for an hour before this and when he returned he was very restless, compared with how calm he had been before. That's when she suggested he search the house "from top to bottom". Well he didn't do as she asked but started at the bottom - the basement where he went straight to the tiny room where JB's body lay.

It's also strange that, during the morning, he had been on the phone to his pilot (John owned two airplanes) instructing him to get the plane ready as the family (what was left of it) would be flying to Atlanta that afternoon.


And as for Burke Ramsey....Normal Bates crossed with Elijah Wood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75MXFZVsD4s

[Abby Normal]

Yes that's right.

She also said that John was 'missing' for an hour before this and when he returned he was very restless, compared with how calm he had been before. That's when she suggested he search the house "from top to bottom". Well he didn't do as she asked but started at the bottom - the basement where he went straight to the tiny room where JB's body lay.

It's also strange that, during the morning, he had been on the phone to his pilot (John owned two airplanes) instructing him to get the plane ready as the family (what was left of it) would be flying to Atlanta that afternoon.


And as for Burke Ramsey....Normal Bates crossed with Elijah Wood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75MXFZVsD4s

I think if its true John was on the phone trying to make plans with his pilot to get out of dodge, especially before her body was found, that's pretty damming evidence of consciousness of guilt.

[louisa]

No, I think she had been found by then. I may have made a mistake when I said John made the call during the morning. I'll have to go back to my books and have another look.

It's still an odd thing to do - for him, Patsy and Burke (plus friends) to want to fly to Atlanta when the body of his daughter hadn't long been discovered and would still be in the house when they left.

His friend Fleet White later phoned the pilot to cancel the flight.

[Pcdunn]

I think if its true John was on the phone trying to make plans with his pilot to get out of dodge, especially before her body was found, that's pretty damming evidence of consciousness of guilt.

I think the police detectives said he was on the phone talking to his pilot after the discovery of the body, so this detail may, like much of the case, also be inconclusive.

I don't care for the way the Ramseys dolled up their daughter, either, but I don't think they were directly responsible for her death. Sometimes I think it was a cover-up for an accident, sometimes I think it was an intruder.

[Abby Normal]

I think the police detectives said he was on the phone talking to his pilot after the discovery of the body, so this detail may, like much of the case, also be inconclusive.

I don't care for the way the Ramseys dolled up their daughter, either, but I don't think they were directly responsible for her death. Sometimes I think it was a cover-up for an accident, sometimes I think it was an intruder.

they are pieces of crap, no matter what happened

but I'm with you-I'm 50/50 ramseys vs intruder, leaning slightly more to ramseys

[Abby Normal]

one of the the things that has me leaning towards ramseys guilt is the stat that 70 % of murdered children found in there home are killed by a family member.

I wonder how much rarer it is that a child is murdered in there home by an intruder WHILE THE PARENTS ARE HOME.

the rarity of it must be astronomical.

[louisa]

I'm re-reading the Steve Thomas book and there is a huge amount of detail in it. Almost a minute by minute account of exactly what happened from the time the police were called.

I honestly think anyone who reads the book will soon discount the 'intruder' theory. The author had no reason to want the Ramseys to be guilty, he was trying to get to the truth. However, in the end he became frustrated at the amount of obstacles that were put in the way of the investigation.

'Team Ramsey' ended up suing Steve Thomas for $10M and won the case because the evidence against them being the murderers was always circumstantial.

I can't help wondering how many people who believe the intruder theory have not read any of the books on this case (and I am not talking about the one written by the Ramseys which is very self serving) but are basing their judgement on what they've heard or seen on TV and find it very difficult to accept parents could be guilty of a crime like this?

[GUT]

I'm re-reading the Steve Thomas book and there is a huge amount of detail in it. Almost a minute by minute account of exactly what happened from the time the police were called.

I honestly think anyone who reads the book will soon discount the 'intruder' theory. The author had no reason to want the Ramseys to be guilty, he was trying to get to the truth. However, in the end he became frustrated at the amount of obstacles that were put in the way of the investigation.

'Team Ramsey' ended up suing Steve Thomas for $10M and won the case because the evidence against them being the murderers was always circumstantial.

I can't help wondering how many people who believe the intruder theory have not read any of the books on this case (and I am not talking about the one written by the Ramseys which is very self serving) but are basing their judgement on what they've heard or seen on TV and find it very difficult to accept parents could be guilty of a crime like this?

And if he was frustrated that the family "put obstacles in the oath of the investigation" don't you think he'd then paint things a certain way.

[Abby Normal]

I'm re-reading the Steve Thomas book and there is a huge amount of detail in it. Almost a minute by minute account of exactly what happened from the time the police were called.

I honestly think anyone who reads the book will soon discount the 'intruder' theory. The author had no reason to want the Ramseys to be guilty, he was trying to get to the truth. However, in the end he became frustrated at the amount of obstacles that were put in the way of the investigation.

'Team Ramsey' ended up suing Steve Thomas for $10M and won the case because the evidence against them being the murderers was always circumstantial.

I can't help wondering how many people who believe the intruder theory have not read any of the books on this case (and I am not talking about the one written by the Ramseys which is very self serving) but are basing their judgement on what they've heard or seen on TV and find it very difficult to accept parents could be guilty of a crime like this?

The Ramsey's wrote a book? I didn't know that. Unbelievable. I didn't think I could like them less, but wow, what a couple of attention whores..