JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[Wickerman]

The A&E network just ran a new update of the case a couple of nights ago.
Apparently, there is indisputable evidence of an intruder. Also, they did show that half-moon scars above the garrott mark are consistent with her scratching at her own neck in an attempt to release the garrott. They claim this indicates the blow to her head which rendered her unconscious must have followed the garrotting attempt.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/a-e-sets-jonbenet-ramsey-922943

Sometime this week a Dr. Phil Show is expected to interview the brother - Burke, to see if his role can be clarified.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/01/jonbenet-ramsey-brother-dr-phil-tv/

[Abby Normal]

The A&E network just ran a new update of the case a couple of nights ago.
Apparently, there is indisputable evidence of an intruder. Also, they did show that half-moon scars above the garrott mark are consistent with her scratching at her own neck in an attempt to release the garrott. They claim this indicates the blow to her head which rendered her unconscious must have followed the garrotting attempt.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/a-e-sets-jonbenet-ramsey-922943

Sometime this week a Dr. Phil Show is expected to interview the brother - Burke, to see if his role can be clarified.
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/01...er-dr-phil-tv/

Well there is possible evidence of an intruder. Or staged to make it look like an intruder.

But I just can't get over a couple of things:
How does all this go on without anyone waking up in the house
The ransome note with johns bonus amount where experts couldn't exclude patsy as the writer.
How does a parent not search every inch, and I mean every inch of there house when they discover there child missing? And Immediately. Any normal parent would have turned the house upside down.

Either way I think that there was some wasted people in the house that night, either the parents the intruder or both.

I'm about 55/45 on someone in the house vs an intruder.

[Wickerman]

Well there is possible evidence of an intruder. Or staged to make it look like an intruder.

A DNA study found three samples of DNA, all the same, which do not match a family member or family relative. The three samples came from different items, among them the waist-band of her panties, her outer clothing and somewhere else. They concluded this person must have been in intimate contact with her, which sort of limits the known candidates - but all expected candidates have been eliminated.

But I just can't get over a couple of things:
How does all this go on without anyone waking up in the house
The ransome note with johns bonus amount where experts couldn't exclude patsy as the writer.
How does a parent not search every inch, and I mean every inch of there house when they discover there child missing? And Immediately. Any normal parent would have turned the house upside down.

Agreed, on all points, but if the murder was staged then why place the body in a spot where the girl shouldn't be - if they choose to incriminate an intruder?
Surely, the girls bedroom is the obvious choice.

Either way I think that there was some wasted people in the house that night, either the parents the intruder or both.

I'm about 55/45 on someone in the house vs an intruder.

I admit, my first impression was the brother killed her by accident. The parents then created the evidence to point to an intruder, but that was based on the belief at the time that the blow to the head came first - this blow being evidence of the accident.
Which doesn't appear to be the case anymore.

Maybe the truth is a blend of both theories.
Apparently, the supposed evidence of sexual interference was incorrect - it was false.

[Pcdunn]

Is that an over air broadcast Pat? I get an error message when I click the link. Thanks.

I wonder if they'll explain why they wasted the money and time convening a Grand Jury then chose not to follow their finding. Maybe they thought they could bamboozle the jurors for cover and it didn't work.

It will be on CBS, the link will be to the network's website. If it doesn't work, just Google "JonBenet television"-- plenty of hits about the programs from news articles, and also the CBS.com link will pop up.

I saw part of one of the other programs earlier this week, and I think the local cops were so set in their minds about it being the parents, they wouldn't accept any other evidence for a stranger attack.

[Harry D]

Michael Helgoth is an 'interesting' character in this case.

[Wickerman]

Some points still concern investigators:
- the absence of any duct tape around the house of a type that was used to gag JonBenet.
- the cord used to bind her hands was parachute cord, none of which was found around the house.
- whatever was used to make the blow to the head was never found.
- part of the paintbrush that was used to make the garrotte, was missing.
If the missing items were removed and hidden or destroyed, why leave the garrotte?

- burn marks consistent with the use of a stun-gun were found on the body.
- the suggestion of sexual interference was a mistaken diagnosis, there was only inflammation - consistent with vaginitis.
- no handwriting expert has ever concluded that Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note.

Opinion now has it that this case is primarily a DNA case. The DNA from the crime scene was entered into CODIS and advances in DNA technology have now made it possible to identify an immediate relative of the killer, should one ever commit a crime that will require their DNA to also be placed in CODIS.
Foreign DNA was found on the left and right sides of the waste band of her leggings. The same DNA was found inside her panties.

It has now been stated that the DNA is more consistent with that of an Hispanic male than a Caucasian male.

P.S. the style of the garrotte was unique, it was not simply a cord around the neck, but it was designed for a purpose. The killer made a loop to go over her head and the other end of the cord wrapped around a paintbrush handle. The loop permitted him to pull with one hand while holding the back of her head with the other, applying pressure, then letting go, then re-applying again - this style of garrotte is used to torture the victim.

[Abby Normal]

A DNA study found three samples of DNA, all the same, which do not match a family member or family relative. The three samples came from different items, among them the waist-band of her panties, her outer clothing and somewhere else. They concluded this person must have been in intimate contact with her, which sort of limits the known candidates - but all expected candidates have been eliminated.



Agreed, on all points, but if the murder was staged then why place the body in a spot where the girl shouldn't be - if they choose to incriminate an intruder?
Surely, the girls bedroom is the obvious choice.



I admit, my first impression was the brother killed her by accident. The parents then created the evidence to point to an intruder, but that was based on the belief at the time that the blow to the head came first - this blow being evidence of the accident.
Which doesn't appear to be the case anymore.

Maybe the truth is a blend of both theories.
Apparently, the supposed evidence of sexual interference was incorrect - it was false.

Pretty much also agree with all this. Re the DNA: if it wasn't for the DNA I'd be leaning much more heavily for someone in the house.

I thought there was pretty clear evidence of sexual assault?? No?

I also don't rule out Burke either. There could be some crazy jeoulosy and pent up sexual frustation the way the parents whored her up.

[Abby Normal]

Some points still concern investigators:
- the absence of any duct tape around the house of a type that was used to gag JonBenet.
- the cord used to bind her hands was parachute cord, none of which was found around the house.
- whatever was used to make the blow to the head was never found.
- part of the paintbrush that was used to make the garrotte, was missing.
If the missing items were removed and hidden or destroyed, why leave the garrotte?

- burn marks consistent with the use of a stun-gun were found on the body.
- the suggestion of sexual interference was a mistaken diagnosis, there was only inflammation - consistent with vaginitis.
- no handwriting expert has ever concluded that Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note.

Opinion now has it that this case is primarily a DNA case. The DNA from the crime scene was entered into CODIS and advances in DNA technology have now made it possible to identify an immediate relative of the killer, should one ever commit a crime that will require their DNA to also be placed in CODIS.
Foreign DNA was found on the left and right sides of the waste band of her leggings. The same DNA was found inside her panties.

It has now been stated that the DNA is more consistent with that of an Hispanic male than a Caucasian male.

P.S. the style of the garrotte was unique, it was not simply a cord around the neck, but it was designed for a purpose. The killer made a loop to go over her head and the other end of the cord wrapped around a paintbrush handle. The loop permitted him to pull with one hand while holding the back of her head with the other, applying pressure, then letting go, then re-applying again - this style of garrotte is used to torture the victim.

This is all great info. Thanks for posting.
I knew most of this but not all especially the DNA being more consistent with a Hispanic. If this is all true than its definitely tick marks for an intruder.

[Wickerman]

This is all great info. Thanks for posting.
I knew most of this but not all especially the DNA being more consistent with a Hispanic. If this is all true than its definitely tick marks for an intruder.

The program I mentioned earlier - The Killing of JonBenet, the truth uncovered, 2016, was the source for all those points, yes some of them were new to me too.

[Abby Normal]

The program I mentioned earlier - The Killing of JonBenet, the truth uncovered, 2016, was the source for all those points, yes some of them were new to me too.

Watching it now. I can tell its biased toward the Ramsey's innocence 15 minutes in.

[Pcdunn]

Watched tonight's Dateline program on NBC. It was fairly unbiased, presenting the facts and chronology, and both viewpoints. It contained information on the Grand Jury indictment, uncovered by a journalist, to the effect that "true bills" were issued about both Ramseys, but the D.A. didn't sign them, because he felt there would not be enough evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Of course, the Jury wasn't privy to the DNA evidence, which later prompted an official to write a letter exonerating the couple.

It featured some snippets from the interviews with young Burke. Most police felt he was telling the truth, though there is still some room for clarification.

[Abby Normal]

Watching it now. I can tell its biased toward the Ramsey's innocence 15 minutes in.

So from this show: the DNA and stun gun evidence is pretty strong IMHO for an intruder.

It bothers me the parents lawyered up so quickly and the amount of effort they put out there blaming the police. And the sit down interviews. Weird especially so soon. The worst was though throughout multiple interviews no tears.
I've seen hundreds of interviews with parents of murdered and missing children and other loved ones and they pretty much all get extremely emotional with tears flowing. Ramsey's none. The interview responses seem staged, not visceral like most I've seen.

I'd like to know how many children found murdered in the parents house turned out to be murdered by an intruder and not the parents. I would imagine its extremely rare.

[Abby Normal]

Watched tonight's Dateline program on NBC. It was fairly unbiased, presenting the facts and chronology, and both viewpoints. It contained information on the Grand Jury indictment, uncovered by a journalist, to the effect that "true bills" were issued about both Ramseys, but the D.A. didn't sign them, because he felt there would not be enough evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Of course, the Jury wasn't privy to the DNA evidence, which later prompted an official to write a letter exonerating the couple.

It featured some snippets from the interviews with young Burke. Most police felt he was telling the truth, though there is still some room for clarification.

Taped this one and got about half way through it before I had to leave.

It struck me how much they didn't cooperate with police. Besides lawyering up on the basically day one, they refused multiple requests from the police for meetings. Instead opting to go on formal interviews, getting multiple lawyers, publicist etc. HUGE RED FLAG.

Any normal parent would have realized de facto they would be suspects and would need the police to clear them first, not to mention meet with police to aid in catching the killer. Even if they're innocent, they're behavior stinks to high heaven and probably even hindered the investigation.

And patsy Ramsey? What a piece of work. What a control freak and attention whore. That family was a mess.

[Pcdunn]

Hi, Abby.

Yes, I was amazed at Patsy's tone in the interview when the detective tried to make her "crack" by saying they had physical evidence linking her to her daughter's murder. She was empathic to the point of near-aggression, and certainly did not crack. I could see a woman like that possibly abusing her kids, at least verbally, though observers say she never did.

My housemate defended Patsy, saying they'd gone through all kinds of media harrassment by then, and people react to grief differently.

Burke, now a grown-up, listened to the tag end of the 9-1-1 call and said it sounded like his voice in the background, but he doesn't remember if he came into the kitchen while his mother was on the call.

I agree with you that their strange way of dealing with the cops-- starting with trying to fly out of Colorado on the very day the murder is discovered-- hindered the investigation.

[Wickerman]

So from this show: the DNA and stun gun evidence is pretty strong IMHO for an intruder.

Well here, tell me this. Part way through the program the claim was made that the sexual assault charge was incorrect, that internal swelling was actually vaginitis and not evidence of sexual assault. Yet later in the show it was pointed out that some DNA was found in her panties, indicative of an attempt towards that end.

So did you get the impression there is a contradiction here, or not?

I've seen hundreds of interviews with parents of murdered and missing children and other loved ones and they pretty much all get extremely emotional with tears flowing. Ramsey's none. The interview responses seem staged, not visceral like most I've seen.

I'd like to know how many children found murdered in the parents house turned out to be murdered by an intruder and not the parents. I would imagine its extremely rare.

Patsy, especially to my mind was overplaying her hand - quite the dramatist when it called for sympathy, but at other times clearly cold.