University of Idaho Stabbings

[Abby Normal]

I'm going to take a wildly speculative guess and say "college students" "weekend late saturday night" "substances of an intoxicating variety coursing through the blood" leads to not great judgment and possibly confusion as to what they saw/witnessed. They were all up partying until around 4 am. I sincerely doubt they were in the best frame of mind to begin with. I mean it was a notorious party house, with the police being called to their place a few weeks before ... and none of the people who lived there were home, just people partying IN their house, while they weren't home. So apparently having randoms walk through the house would not have been an unusual occurrence.



I mean having no fear of death personally, I'd rather die than spend 50 years in a state prison, but that's just me. For most people, I imagine it's the opposite, and the sheer stupid of his choice is boggling.

hi Ally
i thought it was only the male murder victim who didnt live there, and he was with his girlfriend. i was under the impression that all the female murder victims as well as the two surviving people all lived there.

however, i see your first point, having two college age kids i do know when they dont have work or school they can easily sleep till noonish, especially when up late the night before partying. still the one surviving roomate came face to face with the masked intruder, and said herself she was shocked and terrified, so she knew something was amiss almost immediately.

[Ally]

It was mid-day when they called 911. Why so long?

I'm going to take a wildly speculative guess and say "college students" "weekend late saturday night" "substances of an intoxicating variety coursing through the blood" leads to not great judgment and possibly confusion as to what they saw/witnessed. They were all up partying until around 4 am. I sincerely doubt they were in the best frame of mind to begin with. I mean it was a notorious party house, with the police being called to their place a few weeks before ... and none of the people who lived there were home, just people partying IN their house, while they weren't home. So apparently having randoms walk through the house would not have been an unusual occurrence.

Possibly a meaningless detail, but Washington State does not have the death penalty; it was abolished four years ago.

Idaho still has the death penalty.

He crossed state lines to commit a horrific quadruple homicide, which guarantees it will be a capital murder case.

I mean having no fear of death personally, I'd rather die than spend 50 years in a state prison, but that's just me. For most people, I imagine it's the opposite, and the sheer stupid of his choice is boggling.

[rjpalmer]

I legitimately can't believe this PhD criminologist student left his freaking sheath at the crime scene. Like... dude.

Possibly a meaningless detail, but Washington State does not have the death penalty; it was abolished four years ago.

Idaho still has the death penalty.

He crossed state lines to commit a horrific quadruple homicide, which guarantees it will be a capital murder case.

[erobitha]

agree. stellar police work.

from what i understand he walked right past her as she stood outside her room, frozen in shock and fear. once he was gone she then went back in and locked herself in her room.

but what i dont understand is why it took so long for her to then call police. weird.

It was mid-day when they called 911. Why so long?

[Abby Normal]

IMO its unclear to me whether the killer walked past her because she locked herself in her room or if he was truly uninterested in killing her.

They had identified this guy as their prime suspect within 1.5 weeks of the murders and tracked him on his cross-country trip back to PA. Police in Indiana literally pulled him over twice at the FBI's request - ostensibly for minor traffic infractions but in reality so that police could check his hands for defensive wounds.

Great police work all around.

agree. stellar police work.

from what i understand he walked right past her as she stood outside her room, frozen in shock and fear. once he was gone she then went back in and locked herself in her room.

but what i dont understand is why it took so long for her to then call police. weird.

[Ally]

I legitimately can't believe this PhD criminologist student left his freaking sheath at the crime scene. Like... dude.

[Damaso Marte]

IMO its unclear to me whether the killer walked past her because she locked herself in her room or if he was truly uninterested in killing her.

They had identified this guy as their prime suspect within 1.5 weeks of the murders and tracked him on his cross-country trip back to PA. Police in Indiana literally pulled him over twice at the FBI's request - ostensibly for minor traffic infractions but in reality so that police could check his hands for defensive wounds.

Great police work all around.

[Abby Normal]

just read the affidavit. they found a knife sheath with his dna on it lying on the bed next to two of the victims. his car was caught on video around the house the night of the murders. his cell phone records form previous months show he was around the house at least a dozen times.

so no doubt its this guy and he was casing out, at the very least, that residence.

Interestingly, one of the surviving housemates was woken up during, or shortly after the murders and saw him, in a mask, as he walked right past her to make his escape.

[Damaso Marte]

https://nypost.com/2023/01/05/bryan-...th-court-docs/

The suspect has made his court appearance in Idaho so the complaint against him is now public. It includes details on what evidence they have on him and how he was identified.

According to the evidence the entire murder spree took less than 20 minutes. His car enters the house at 4:02am and departs 4:20am. He butchered four people in that time.

Direct link to affidavit: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/...tt%20Payne.pdf

Interesting detail: they noticed that the suspicious white Elantra had no front license plate. Most US states require a license plate on both front and back but the killer's
home state of Pennsylvania somewhat uniquely does not require a front plate. So they knew to look for a white Elantra registered in Pennslyvania. Not a lot of those 2,500 miles west of Pennsylvania in Idaho and Washington!

[Pontius2000]

"Exoneration occurs when the conviction for a crime is reversed, either through demonstration of innocence, a flaw in the conviction, or otherwise. Attempts to exonerate convicts are particularly controversial in death penalty cases, especially where new evidence is put forth after the execution has taken place."

I can't make this point much clearer. Being charged is not convicted. Therefore no exoneration is required. Just a not guilty verdict, which is not the same as exonerated.

As a PhD student in criminology, he would know and understand the difference. So why he said he would be exonerated is psychologically speaking interesting.

Another interesting point to note is that among the charges of murder is one for burglary. This suggests he may have taken something away with him or he was potentially already inside taking items as the students were returning from their night out.

As I stated, there is no finding of “innocence”. There are only rulings of Guilty or Not Guilty (exoneration). “Burglary” is the entrance of a building or dwelling with the intention to commit a crime therein. The entrance of an OCCUPIED DWELLING (ie, a place where people are) at night (ie, after the sun has set and before it has risen again) with intention to commit a crime is automatically Burglary 1st Degree which is considered a Violent Offense in all 50 states. He entered an occupied dwelling at night with the intention of committing murder. That is automatically Burglary 1st. He then committed 4 counts of Murder.

[Ally]

I can't make this point much clearer. Being charged is not convicted. Therefore no exoneration is required. Just a not guilty verdict, which is not the same as exonerated.

As a PhD student in criminology, he would know and understand the difference. So why he said he would be exonerated is psychologically speaking interesting.

I disagree. The word exonerated in a strictly legal sense might refer to convictions, but most people use it colloquially to mean "absolved of blame" as it is defined. The conviction component only matters if one is making a legal argument, not a public appeal. He was making a public appeal.

[erobitha]

No one is ever found "innocent". They are only found Guilty or Not Guilty. Not Guilty does not mean "innocent". Not Guilty WOULD mean "exonerated".

"Exoneration occurs when the conviction for a crime is reversed, either through demonstration of innocence, a flaw in the conviction, or otherwise. Attempts to exonerate convicts are particularly controversial in death penalty cases, especially where new evidence is put forth after the execution has taken place."

I can't make this point much clearer. Being charged is not convicted. Therefore no exoneration is required. Just a not guilty verdict, which is not the same as exonerated.

As a PhD student in criminology, he would know and understand the difference. So why he said he would be exonerated is psychologically speaking interesting.

Another interesting point to note is that among the charges of murder is one for burglary. This suggests he may have taken something away with him or he was potentially already inside taking items as the students were returning from their night out.

[Pontius2000]

He doesn't have to be proven innocent. He is innocent until proven guilty.

No one is ever found "innocent". They are only found Guilty or Not Guilty. Not Guilty does not mean "innocent". Not Guilty WOULD mean "exonerated".

[Abby Normal]

He doesn't have to be proven innocent. He is innocent until proven guilty.

thats not even what ero was saying. of course everyone knows in a court of law one is innocent until proven guilty.

But this isnt a court of law so Ill say it-hes guilty as sin-his DNA is at the crime scene and his car was seen in the area and his cell phones pinging in sync to where his victims were. and im sure they have alot more.

he did it and I hope they fry his ass.

[erobitha]

He doesn't have to be proven innocent. He is innocent until proven guilty.

I wasn’t making any assumption of his guilt. I was simply stating what he said. It is peculiar to say exonerated rather than innocent. Exoneration happens post-conviction. As a criminology student he would be aware of the subtle differences.