I've lived in Manhattan, I've lived in suburbs, and I've lived out in the boondocks, practically out in the woods. The sounds of the city, and the sounds of the country a very different, and when you go from one to the other, the sounds at night can't freak you out for a few days, mainly because it takes you a while to tune them out. Depending on what you ate used to, the sound of cracking wood might, or might not seem really obviously something that needs checking out. Just like the sound of a car pulling up, late at night, when you are home alone and not expecting anyone, can scare you when you live in the middle of nowhere. When you move to an apartment building where you can hear cars pulling into the parking lot, it takes getting used to. When someone from a rural area visits you in the city, and they hear air brakes from a bus, at night, they jump.
I have a feeling the cracking sound is like the cry of "Oh, murder!" (or whatever it might have been), the night Mary Jane Kelly was murdered. It wasn't worth investigating, because it seemed normal at the time, but the next day, when you learn what has happened, suddenly something you remember becomes important.
The Lindbergh Baby Kidnapping
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Originally posted by RivkahChaya View PostOne thing in regard to the kidnappers going forward after the baby died-- they had already left the note, and they may have spent money on preparations for the plot that they desperately needed to recoup.
Lindbergh may have described the sound as "an orange crate breaking" after the fact, but they lived near a wooded area, which I did for about ten years at one point. You hear wood snapping and cracking all the time. It's not worth investigating, because it's doubtfully anything meaningful to you, and there's always the outside possibility that it could be something like a coyote nearby. It's more likely a neighbor's dog, or a branch falling out of a tree, or deer. There are so many things it could be. "Zebra" is probably more likely than "kidnapper," even.
If Lindbergh had killed the baby himself, accidentally, and the family wanted to cover it up, I think there were simpler ways (eg., "he tried to climb out of his crib, and fell"), than an elaborate kidnap staging, with a body dump in a nearby woods, taking a chance the body never would be found. It's also hard to imagine Anne Morrow not being in on it, and I don't think she would stand by and let a man she knew was innocent go to the chair.
I always liked Anne Morrow far more than her husband.
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One thing in regard to the kidnappers going forward after the baby died-- they had already left the note, and they may have spent money on preparations for the plot that they desperately needed to recoup.
Lindbergh may have described the sound as "an orange crate breaking" after the fact, but they lived near a wooded area, which I did for about ten years at one point. You hear wood snapping and cracking all the time. It's not worth investigating, because it's doubtfully anything meaningful to you, and there's always the outside possibility that it could be something like a coyote nearby. It's more likely a neighbor's dog, or a branch falling out of a tree, or deer. There are so many things it could be. "Zebra" is probably more likely than "kidnapper," even.
I'm not sure why the cremation seems to have been done with "unseemly" haste. The Lindberghs probably were anxious to get the body out of the police morgue, and after it had been out in the open, and scavenged by animals, they probably were in a hurry for a proper disposal and funeral. I don't know why they chose cremation, but maybe they come from a tradition where funerals have open caskets and since that wasn't and option, somehow hastening the baby's "return to dust" felt right. I don't think wanting the body back, and the funeral to proceed as quickly as possible is "unseemly," whether there was a cremation or not.
If Lindbergh had killed the baby himself, accidentally, and the family wanted to cover it up, I think there were simpler ways (eg., "he tried to climb out of his crib, and fell"), than an elaborate kidnap staging, with a body dump in a nearby woods, taking a chance the body never would be found. It's also hard to imagine Anne Morrow not being in on it, and I don't think she would stand by and let a man she knew was innocent go to the chair.
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Now that's something I don't understand. He hears the sound of breaking wood, and it must be unusual or else he would not have noted the sound, and he doesn't go see what it is? That house has a lot of wood in it. You don't want to check that the staircase is still sound, or nothing has somehow punched through the ceiling? I'd go look. I would want an explanation for that noise.
Graham
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[QUOTE=Graham;257927
On the night of the kidnap Lindbergh said he heard a noise like 'an orange crate' being broken up, and when the ladder was discovered it was broken at the top joint (it was in three sections, presumably to ease transportation). It was suggested that the ladder broke under the weight of the kidnapper who was carrying the baby, which he dropped to its death on the ground below.
G[/QUOTE]
Now that's something I don't understand. He hears the sound of breaking wood, and it must be unusual or else he would not have noted the sound, and he doesn't go see what it is? That house has a lot of wood in it. You don't want to check that the staircase is still sound, or nothing has somehow punched through the ceiling? I'd go look. I would want an explanation for that noise.
I've always wondered if something else was going on in the house at the time of the abduction. Something they didn't want people to know about. Not that they were involved in the kidnapping, but they were doing something that they could not afford getting out. Maybe they were smoking week and getting drunk. Maybe they were holding a pagan ritual, wife swapping, who knows. Something. And maybe the kidnapper knew they would be involved, and that's why he chose the time he did. Or she.
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Originally posted by RivkahChaya View PostThere's one loon with a website, who complains that the children of Lindbergh and Anne Morrow refuse to acknowledge him or submit to DNA tests, because OMG! It's a huge conspiracy, and plus, they don't want to share the family money with him. Never mind that they willingly submitted to testing to verify the lineage of their father's illegitimate children, albeit, they waited until after their mother had died.
In other words, the illegitimate children were accepted by Lindbergh's legitimate children as family, being half-brothers and sisters. There is no way that they would deny a claimant to be their oldest brother if they thought at all he could really be their brother. I think they would and probably have ran the DNA to shut him up.
A sad note here, I have seen crime scene pictures of the discovered body of Lindbergh's child
and that any parent would have to identify that decomposed little body when they had cooperated with the kidnappers and expected to find him alive, is a horror I don't like to think about.Last edited by RavenDarkendale; 04-14-2013, 11:53 AM.
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I think Archaic's got it about right with regard to what happened during and after the abduction of the baby, but this case is vastly complicated and convoluted. For example:
- how did the kidnapper(s) know which window to put his/their ladder to?
- was it just coincidence that they arrived while the family were downstairs having dinner?
- to me, the above suggests that they had assistance from someone within the family who knew their habits and also where the baby slept. Violet Sharpe, maybe, who could have accompanied the Morrows on a visit to Hopewell? Betty Gow? A N Other?
- under 'normal' circumstances, their quarry being accidentally killed, I would expect the kidnapper(s) to simply disappear, never to be heard from again, but he/they didn't. They went ahead with their ransom demands and the pretense that he/they had a live and well baby in their possession who would be returned to the bosom of his family for a consideration of $50000.
- was the corpse found by the trucker really Buster Lindbergh, or as has been claimed a child from the nearby Catholic children's home? Why was the body cremated with what appears to be unseemly haste?
- I personally never quite understood why Lindbergh seemed to rely so much on Dr J F Condon - "Jafsie" - who seems to me to have been rather a comic and self-important figure. (He even apparently set up a kind of music-hall act after the kidnapping, based on the events).
- Condon, when speaking to the kidnapper on the phone, claimed to have heard someone speaking Italian in the background. There were rumours circulating that Al Capone was involved....
- Who was Cemetery John? Was it Hauptmann? Why did he ask Condon if he'd 'burn' if the baby was dead? Do we take this as a veiled admission that they baby was dead?
- What if any was the role of the strange Isidore Fisch?
- How much if any evidence found at Hauptmann's house was planted by the police?
- How much is known of the background of Harold Olsen, who suspected he was Buster Lindbergh, and also that Al Capone was behind the whole thing?
- There were rumours at the time and since that the baby was accidentally killed by Lindbergh during boisterous play, and that as an All-American hero Lindbergh could not allow the world to learn that he had killed his child. I don't think there is much basis for believing this, but as is always the case in such mysteries, there is rarely smoke without fire.
And many more questions....!
Graham
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re: Panicked Flight
Originally posted by The Good Michael View PostArchaic,
The ladder was a pretty inventive thing. It must have taken quite a bit of time to build it. Why leave something that can be traced? And it was traced and was connected to Hauptmann. I think two men would have easily dismantled it and put it pack in the truck they must have brought
Well, I don't claim to know the real answer, but my guess is that when the ladder step cracked and the kidnapper(s) accidentally crushed the poor baby's head, they panicked.
Maybe the kidnapper(s) had every intention of taking "good care" of little Charles Jr, and returning him to his family in exchange for a large sum of money. Maybe that had assuaged their consciences, and even gotten their wives and girlfriends to agree to go along with the plot. Maybe they truly thought they had planned everything to the last detail, and had carefully arranged a safe place to hide the baby, caregivers for him, an elaborate communication code... but all their plans fell to pieces with the rickety ladder.
Think about it, all the work, all the planning, all the preparation- but the accidental and unfortunately fatal head injury happened within just few seconds of snatching him from his bed. I'm sure they weren't prepared for that. Now they were no longer the brazenly clever con men and professional extortionists they might have thought themselves to be before- they were murderers. And what's worse, they were baby killers. They haplessly killed one of the most beloved babies in America, and America was going to be out for their blood. I think they lost their cool, forgot their plans, and in a complete panic ran like hell. Even if there had been 2 kidnappers, their only goal at that point would have been to get away.
The whole crux of their original plan was the belief that having possession of the Lindbergh baby gave them POWER- the power to fool, control, manipulate and extort not only Charles Lindbergh, but pretty much everyone in America; the public, the police, the bankers, and the media. But with the baby dead in the first few seconds of their botched kidnapping, that all dissolved.
Later the kidnapper(s) would try to carry on with the ransom plot in order to still extort some cash, but I have reasons for thinking they panicked on the night of the kidnapping.
I think one compelling proof that the kidnapper(s) panicked & ran is that THEY DIDN'T KEEP THE BABY'S BODY WITH THEM.
Think about it. If the kidnapper(s) had been psychologically prepared for the possibility of Charles Lindbergh, Jr. dying in his own back yard that night they would have done things much differently. They didn't bury his little body where he couldn't be found; they didn't bury him at all. They didn't get far away from the Lindbergh home and leave his body someplace relatively 'safe' so they could come back and retrieve it later when they had completed their getaway, calmed down, and decided how best to proceed.
And the kidnapper(s) didn't take the child's body with them to their home or hideout, so the sad little remains were eventually found and their villainous FAILURE was exposed to the world.
To me these are all signs of panicked flight from the scene of the crime. With the Lindbergh baby dead, dragging along a broken ladder as they fled was the last thing on their minds.
Best regards,
Archaic
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Originally posted by Archaic View PostI think it's interesting that Hauptmann refused to plead guilty, even as he went to the electric chair. I've wondered if he really was innocent of the kidnapping, or if he just couldn't bear for his wife and the rest of the world to know that he had kidnapped and caused the death of a little baby.
Re: the ladder, Hauptmann was contemptuous of the rickety thing, because he was a skilled carpenter. So maybe that was just an act & he deliberately built it to look "unprofessional" to draw attention away from himself, or maybe he didn't build it after all.
You can also see how someone with no knowledge of forensics, or how the police work, might abandon the ladder, thinking that being caught with it in one's possession might be how one gets caught-- and implicated in murder, and maybe doesn't realize how a ladder can be traced back to the owner.
The ransom notes were in his writing, syntax, and spelling. I have read that the handwriting match was controversial, with some experts convinced Hauptman wrote the ransom letters, and some convinced that it wasn't his writing but an imitator
To this day, people claim to be the Lindbergh baby.
Originally posted by The Good Michael View PostOne reason I think Hauptmann acted alone in the kidnapping is because the ladder was left at the scene. This was presumably a folding ladder and if there had been two men on the job, why not take down the folding ladder. It was brought there so why not fold it up and bring it back. I think it was because the lone kidnapper's hands were full.
Mike
Just a reminder: it's an assumption that the baby died because it was dropped when the ladder broke. On the balance of evidence, it does seem likely, but we do not actually know that. No confessed kidnapper has ever come forward to tell up what happened that night.
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Originally posted by The Good Michael View PostArchaic,
The ladder was a pretty inventive thing. It must have taken quite a bit of time to build it. Why leave something that can be traced? And it was traced and was connected to Hauptmann. I think two men would have easily dismantled it and put it pack in the truck they must have brought
Mike
I think the kidnapper(s) intended to take the ladder with them, but when it broke loudly enough to be heard inside the house, they panicked and left it and took off. I think they left something else too (chisel or screwdriver--don't remember).
If the baby fell and died when the ladder broke, they sure wouldn't have wanted to be caught there with a dead baby while slowed down by a ladder.
MarkLast edited by kidtwist; 04-13-2013, 07:21 PM.
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Archaic,
The ladder was a pretty inventive thing. It must have taken quite a bit of time to build it. Why leave something that can be traced? And it was traced and was connected to Hauptmann. I think two men would have easily dismantled it and put it pack in the truck they must have brought
Mike
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Originally posted by The Good Michael View PostOne reason I think Hauptmann acted alone in the kidnapping is because the ladder was left at the scene. This was presumably a folding ladder and if there had been two men on the job, why not take down the folding ladder. It was brought there so why not fold it up and bring it back. I think it was because the lone kidnapper's hands were full.
But once the kidnapping was achieved, even if it was 2 men, their goal would be to get away from the crime scene as fast as possible.
So why bother running with a cumbersome folding ladder that had already broken?
Hauptmann seemed to be an intelligent man, and a skilled carpenter. One would think he would know how to build a ladder that could at least bear his weight. The fact that it didn't bear a man's weight is why the baby's head was badly injured, causing his rapid death, and obviously jeopardizing the entire ransom concept.
I don't think the baby's death was intended. In such a high-profile and high-risk crime one would think the plotters could have come up with a more reliable ladder- the whole plot of kidnapping the baby from his room depended on the ladder.
The whole case is very convoluted.
As has been mentioned, the public, the media, and law enforcement were highly prejudiced against Hauptmann from the start. Besides being an immigrant, he was actually a veteran of WWI, having been drafted into the German Army. The horrors of WWI were a very recent memory for the American public, as they were for the whole world. German military aggression was blamed as the cause of the war, and the many millions of deaths. So being both an immigrant and an "enemy Hun" only increased the prejudice against Hauptmann.
Best regards,
Archaic
PS: Thanks Graham, you're right, it was Violet Sharpe who committed suicide, not Betty Gow. I was going from memory. Some people thought Violet and a "young man" might have been involved in the kidnapping; hence her suicide when it all went wrong and the baby died. Not sure if any researchers still believe that today; do you know?
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One reason I think Hauptmann acted alone in the kidnapping is because the ladder was left at the scene. This was presumably a folding ladder and if there had been two men on the job, why not take down the folding ladder. It was brought there so why not fold it up and bring it back. I think it was because the lone kidnapper's hands were full.
Mike
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My only problem with family cover-up theories, even though a lot of them make sense, is that I don't see the family dumping their baby in the dirt like that. I don't see someone who cared for that child doing that, so that includes the household staff that would most likely be involved. Which isn't to say it was a stranger, but if it was Charles, Anne, or the nanny, I see the child being disposed of with more respect and care. Wrapped in a blanket, placed where he would be found easily so they could bury him properly. That's what I would expect.
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We can draw some conclusions:
1) An innocent baby was murdered and discarded in a shallow grave like it was garbage
2) Kidnappers sent ransom notes anyway, knowing the baby was dead, thus creating the cruelty of false hope
3) The ransom money was paid, in gold certificates that were being replaced by silver ones to help find the kidnapper if all else failed
4) Hauptman had some of these marked gold certificates.
5) The ransom notes were in his writing, syntax, and spelling. I have read that the handwriting match was controversial, with some experts convinced Hauptman wrote the ransom letters, and some convinced that it wasn't his writing but an imitator
6) Haptman's trial was something of a farce, with his guilt predetermined.
7)Hauptmann's fingerprints were not on the wood, even in places that the man who made the ladder would have had to touch. The prosecution refused to believe this and had the ladder wiped clean so they could claim the prints were there.
8) Hauptmann turned down a $90,000 offer from a Hearst newspaper for a confession and refused a last-minute offer to commute his execution to a life sentence in exchange for a confession.
9) A man who could very well have been innocent was executed
10) Lindbergh, America's Hero, said that he could find "no honorable alternative" to resign his commission as a Colonel in the U.S. Army Air Corps after President Roosevelt had publicly questioned his loyalty be cause he said, "America does not have any business attacking Germany." He supported what he called "limited suppression of the Jewish people" which included executions to thin the herd, but thought Hitler insane and the Final Solution going too far and too cruel.
11) To this day, people claim to be the Lindbergh baby.
Closing interesting fact: Lindbergh had three secret families, and had three children by one lady, two by her sister, and two by a third woman. He and his wife Ann Morrow had five other children besides Lindbergh, Jr. Go figureLast edited by RavenDarkendale; 04-13-2013, 01:35 PM.
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