New JonBenet Report: Grand Jury Voted To Indict Ramseys In 1999 But DA Shelved It

[Archaic]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/27/jonbenet-ramsey-case-grand-jury-indictment-alex-hunter_n_2562007.html

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_22446410/boulder-grand-jury-voted-indict-ramseys

Best regards,
Archaic

[RivkahChaya]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2562007.html

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_22446410/boulder-grand-jury-voted-indict-ramseys

Best regards,
Archaic

I remember when John Mark Karr was first arrested and extradited, before photographs and affidavits placed him out of state at the time of the murder, there was a newspaper cartoon of Death (the hooded skeleton with the scythe) sitting on a lounge chair in front of his TV, watching the news coverage of the extradition, and saying "Wow; even I thought the parents did it."

For people who don't know, the "newly discovered DNA evidence," that cleared the family in 1998, was male DNA on JonBenet's underwear, that did not match her father or brother, nor appear to be a relative at all.

[louisa]

I suspect that this is one crime that will never have closure. Not unless John Ramsey, or his son Burke, come out and tell what really happened that night, and now that seems very unlikely to happen.

For my money the best, and I suspect, the most accurate, account of events is in the excellent book 'Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation' by Steve Thomas, one of the top investigators on the case at the time. The whole of the Boulder police force knew Patsy was guilty and that is still where they stand on this, but their investigations were obstructed at every turn by the Ramseys' high powered lawyers.

It just goes to show that rich people can get away with murder.

[Archaic]

Hi Louisa.

I agree with you.

As for the male DNA found, it doesn't actually "exonerate" the Ramseys. Scientists have proven that even brand-new undergarments pick up other people's DNA right in the factory where they are being made and packaged.

I've always thought that the most bizarre aspect of this puzzling case is the so-called 'Ransom Note'. It's pretty much the phoniest thing I ever read. And it's got "Patsy" written all over it.

The sentence, "We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction" is like fingers on the blackboard to me.

It's not surprising that Patsy's 'pageant talent' was giving dramatic readings. I'm sure the 'Ramsey Ransom Note' sounds better when read aloud with just the right inflection.

I wish I could hold out hope that someday there will be justice for JonBenet, but sadly it seems unlikely... poor little girl.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Barnaby]

I haven't read the Thomas book. What was Patsy's motive?

[Magpie]

For people who don't know, the "newly discovered DNA evidence," that cleared the family in 1998, was male DNA on JonBenet's underwear, that did not match her father or brother, nor appear to be a relative at all.

That "DNA exoneration" came from a new DNA technique that is complete untested and not generally accepted in the forensics community. The DNA amount is so minute that it could have come from literally anywhere, even from the factory where the underwear was made.

[louisa]

Hi All!

Barnaby - you asked what Patsy's motive was. I believe (as do many others) that Patsy had no intention of killing JonBenet. It was a tragic accident. I believe that Patsy had so much going on during that holiday period, they were going on vacation early the next morning, and the kids were playing up, annoying her. Patsy may have pushed JonBenet and the child fell against a hard corner of something. The loud crack to her skull would have told Patsy that irreparable damage had been done. Patsy may have assumed that she had killed JonBenet.

This was the moment where a decision had to be made. Should she call 911? This would entail problems. She would be branded a murderer by everyone who knew her (and Patsy was all for appearances, remember?). I believe this feeling of what people might think over-rode everything else. In her panic she decided to make the death of her daughter look like a kidnapping. So she took her daughter's body down to the basement and hid it. That's when she sat down and wrote the ransom note.

Then....and this is what I believe happened next....Patsy thought she should embellish things by making the basement - and her daughter's body - more of a crime scene. She took some nylon cord and wrapped it around JonBenet's wrists, then another piece around her neck. This wasn't tight enough (Patsy wanted her daughter's death to look like death by strangulation), so she broke off a piece of a thin paintbrush and twisted it inside the nylon cord, like a garotte. Then she tore off a piece of duct tape and put it over JonBenet's mouth. (This was later proved to have been placed there after life was extinct). At some point afterwards Patsy took the remnants of the duct tape and the nylon cord and dumped them in a neighbour's trash can.

Then she covered her daughter's body in a fluffy white blanket, straight out of the tumble drier (the pink nightie may have been attached to this by static, that's why it was found with the blanket, no other reason).

Then.....after putting the ransom note on the steps of the spiral staircase Patsy ran upstairs screaming for John. The rest is history.

[RivkahChaya]

That "DNA exoneration" came from a new DNA technique that is complete untested and not generally accepted in the forensics community. The DNA amount is so minute that it could have come from literally anywhere, even from the factory where the underwear was made.

I posted that not because I'm necessarily a supporter of the technique, swayed by the evidence, or what have you, just because it didn't make the headlines one might have expected (I don't remember what else was going on at the exact time-- it was in 2008, so maybe it was overshadowed by the election), and I thought a lot of people, especially people across the pond, might have been scratching their heads over it.

[louisa]

Patsy was asked to give examples of her handwriting using first her right hand and then her left hand....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CUljIlHmxGE/UBQnLWYLKfI/AAAAAAAAAfE/hgUCtJvERJM/s1600/patsy+left+hand+comparison+Nat+Enquirer.gif

[jason_c]

Hi All!

Barnaby - you asked what Patsy's motive was. I believe (as do many others) that Patsy had no intention of killing JonBenet. It was a tragic accident. I believe that Patsy had so much going on during that holiday period, they were going on vacation early the next morning, and the kids were playing up, annoying her. Patsy may have pushed JonBenet and the child fell against a hard corner of something. The loud crack to her skull would have told Patsy that irreparable damage had been done. Patsy may have assumed that she had killed JonBenet.

This was the moment where a decision had to be made. Should she call 911? This would entail problems. She would be branded a murderer by everyone who knew her (and Patsy was all for appearances, remember?). I believe this feeling of what people might think over-rode everything else. In her panic she decided to make the death of her daughter look like a kidnapping. So she took her daughter's body down to the basement and hid it. That's when she sat down and wrote the ransom note.

Then....and this is what I believe happened next....Patsy thought she should embellish things by making the basement - and her daughter's body - more of a crime scene. She took some nylon cord and wrapped it around JonBenet's wrists, then another piece around her neck. This wasn't tight enough (Patsy wanted her daughter's death to look like death by strangulation), so she broke off a piece of a thin paintbrush and twisted it inside the nylon cord, like a garotte. Then she tore off a piece of duct tape and put it over JonBenet's mouth. (This was later proved to have been placed there after life was extinct). At some point afterwards Patsy took the remnants of the duct tape and the nylon cord and dumped them in a neighbour's trash can.

Then she covered her daughter's body in a fluffy white blanket, straight out of the tumble drier (the pink nightie may have been attached to this by static, that's why it was found with the blanket, no other reason).

Then.....after putting the ransom note on the steps of the spiral staircase Patsy ran upstairs screaming for John. The rest is history.

The evidence that I found most fascinating was that Patsy's was wearing the exact same clothes that morning as she had the night before. This was very much unlike her according to reports.

Could she have simply thrown on her nearest clothes once she knew Jon Benet was missing? Perhaps. The fact that she did contaminate the body by doing so instantly rang alarm bells with me.

[louisa]

Hi Jason,

In her first statement to Sgt. French, (the first officer on the scene), Patsy said that she got up, got dressed, did her make-up and hair and then looked in JonBenet's bedroom and saw that she was missing....then ran down the stairs and found the ransom note.

Patsy then changed her story and stated in all of her subsequent accounts, that she got up, got dressed, did her make-up and hair.....and then found the ransom note on the stairs. Then she said she ran upstairs to check on JonBenet.


I always think that a good liar has to have a good memory.


I can see no reason why Patsy would not put on fresh clothes for the new day ahead. What she was wearing were obviously her 'good' clothes because she wore them to a party Christmas Day.

Personally (and I'm not rich like Patsy was, and don't have so many clothes) I wouldn't put on the same clothes two days running.

[RivkahChaya]

Patsy was asked to give examples of her handwriting using first her right hand and then her left hand....[/url]

That doesn't look like an exact match to me. That looks a lot like the way most people who can write with both hands write with their weaker hand. It makes me wonder if Patsy Ramsey was originally left-handed, and made to switch as a child, and it also makes me wonder if the note-writer used his/her non-dominant hand.

The evidence that I found most fascinating was that Patsy's was wearing the exact same clothes that morning as she had the night before. This was very much unlike her according to reports.

Could she have simply thrown on her nearest clothes once she knew Jon Benet was missing? Perhaps. The fact that she did contaminate the body by doing so instantly rang alarm bells with me.

How much blood was there? I know there wasn't a whole lot, but head wounds do bleed. She got no blood on those clothes?

Patsy was a very religious person, the sort of person I would have expected to make a deathbed confession. Now, that wouldn't necessarily make headlines-- it'd be kept pretty private; however, I might expect someone to discreetly let the Boulder police know they could close the case. The fact that the Karr confession was taken so seriously, that he was extradited from Thailand, and not dismissed as the kook he turned out to be, makes me assume the investigation was still wide open after Patsy's death.

I suppose if John Ramsey or the son were directly involved, it might take their deaths before someone tells the police to close the case. Still, John Ramsey was apparently going to sit by and let someone else go to prison when Karr was arrested. Colorado has the death penalty.

Most things I have read on the case say that the Boulder police, inexperienced in homicides, bungled the forensics horribly.

Personally, I don't know what to think. For a long time, I thought it was the parents, but right now, I'm less sure. Not because of the DNA, but because of what I've learned of the police at the time. A lot of what seemed like suspicious behavior on the part of the parents may be explained by police incompetence.

[louisa]

Hi Ravkah,

Head wounds do bleed a lot. However, this head wound only bled internally - there were no external visible signs that JonBenet had been struck - it was only when the autopsy was performed that the skull was found to be fractured.

Yes Patsy was a religious person, but we know from criminal history that these people are as bad as anyone else who wants to commit a crime (or cover it up).

Patsy may have made a deathbed confession, but the Reverend would never be able to reveal what she said. The Reverend was a close personal friend of the Ramseys, who regularly gave donations to the church.

I feel that Patsy would also have sworn John to total secrecy and I honestly believe that he will uphold her wishes until the end.


The police explored every avenue concerning the 'intruder' theory. The crime scene had been staged from the beginning but police still investigated other theories. The Ramseys kept sending them off on wild goose chases....requesting that they interview this person, or that person. However, they themselves refused to be interviewed by police.

The Ramseys got 'lawyered up' the same day that their daughter died. Separate lawyers for each of them too, which gives rise to speculation. Maybe John could foresee a forthcoming diversity of interests between himself and Patsy?

[Abby Normal]

someone in that household did it.

Who wouldn't search every inch of there house-and I mean every inch-when they discover their kid missing.

John and patsy were probably thinking whats taking these stupid cops so long to find her.

[jason_c]

Hi Jason,

In her first statement to Sgt. French, (the first officer on the scene), Patsy said that she got up, got dressed, did her make-up and hair and then looked in JonBenet's bedroom and saw that she was missing....then ran down the stairs and found the ransom note.

Patsy then changed her story and stated in all of her subsequent accounts, that she got up, got dressed, did her make-up and hair.....and then found the ransom note on the stairs. Then she said she ran upstairs to check on JonBenet.


I always think that a good liar has to have a good memory.


I can see no reason why Patsy would not put on fresh clothes for the new day ahead. What she was wearing were obviously her 'good' clothes because she wore them to a party Christmas Day.

Personally (and I'm not rich like Patsy was, and don't have so many clothes) I wouldn't put on the same clothes two days running.

Thanks for pointing that out. I couldn't remember all the details surrounding the clothes allegation.