Ghosts....?

[Abby Normal]

I think that the idea of ghosts and reincarnation is all to do with the human mind.

It is impossible to imagine being dead, isn't it? We cannot imagine not being able to think. Yes, imagining ourselves being completely dead and gone is an impossibility. Hence spirits and ghosts. We need these things to reassure ourselves that our souls can live on indefinity.

If human beings have a soul then so too must all sentinent creatures yet we never hear of rat ghosts or polar bear ghosts, or whatever.

To think that humans are the only animals with souls is surely being rather egotistical on our part?

Hi louisa
Many after life experiences involve peoples dogs and cats. One person who had died and came back saw his childhood dog and said something to the effect-I was really surprised because I never thought dogs would have an afterlife.

[Abby Normal]

There is also obviously more to 'ghosts' than simple 'imagination' or 'the human mind'. That's an oft-wheeled out, simplistic explanation for what seems to be a complex phenomenom (or phenomena).

To my mind, there could be a distinction to be drawn between the 'replay' ghosts that are apparently unaware of human presence; the 'spirit' ghosts which appear to have some sentience; and the 'orb' ghost which have been subject to wide-ranging explanation.

I haven't seen a 'replay' ghost. I have experienced a 'spirit' ghost (not a great deal of fun to live with) and I have seen 'orbs'. Who knows what they are?

There is too much testimony, too much antiquity, for ghost to be the simple product of an over-active imagination.

Like so many mysteries, something is going on. Just wait until I get started on the Loch Ness Monster...

Hi Sally
Could the orb be ball lightning? along with seeing Chessie my mom also experienced what we all came to think was probably ball lightning.

[Sally]

Hi Sally
Could the orb be ball lightning? along with seeing Chessie my mom also experienced what we all came to think was probably ball lightning.

Hi Abby

Yes, ball lightning is a common explanation - perhaps some sightings of 'orbs' can be explained that way. Not all, however. There have been many sightings of orbs in interiors, for example

I saw orbs at night, in woodland (late night walk with the dog) many years ago. There were several of them, flitting about. They were about spherical, white, about the size of a grapefruit (more or less) and made no sound.

I have no real view regarding what they were. I can see, though, how seeing something like that might encourage belief in supernatural beings - maybe this is part of where tales of fairies comes from, for example.

They weren't scary, particularly, just interesting. I watched them for about 20 minutes, then they sort of faded away.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby

Yes, ball lightning is a common explanation - perhaps some sightings of 'orbs' can be explained that way. Not all, however. There have been many sightings of orbs in interiors, for example

I saw orbs at night, in woodland (late night walk with the dog) many years ago. There were several of them, flitting about. They were about spherical, white, about the size of a grapefruit (more or less) and made no sound.

I have no real view regarding what they were. I can see, though, how seeing something like that might encourage belief in supernatural beings - maybe this is part of where tales of fairies comes from, for example.

They weren't scary, particularly, just interesting. I watched them for about 20 minutes, then they sort of faded away.

Hi Sally
Interesting. How far away were they? Did you approach them?

My moms experience: She was sitting in the family room watching TV at night. There was thunder storm. To her right was glass french doors that lead to our backdeck/yard. She suddenly noticed a whitish/yellow sphere about the size of a basketball outside the doors hovering. It floated through the glass doors into the room and hovered about in the room just a few feet in front of her. She was kind of mesmerized for a few moments watching this this thing so she did not get up off the couch. Then it vanished. The whole thing lasted only about 30 seconds at most she said. She got the impression that it was NOT supernatural, but some sort of electrical/optical phenomena. She actually was not all that shocked or surprised about it and only mentioned it casually to us a few days later like it was no big deal.

The Chessie sighting, though, THAT was a big deal-reporters,TV and everything.

[curious]

There is also obviously more to 'ghosts' than simple 'imagination' or 'the human mind'. That's an oft-wheeled out, simplistic explanation for what seems to be a complex phenomenom (or phenomena).

To my mind, there could be a distinction to be drawn between the 'replay' ghosts that are apparently unaware of human presence; the 'spirit' ghosts which appear to have some sentience; and the 'orb' ghost which have been subject to wide-ranging explanation.

I haven't seen a 'replay' ghost. I have experienced a 'spirit' ghost (not a great deal of fun to live with) and I have seen 'orbs'. Who knows what they are?

There is too much testimony, too much antiquity, for ghost to be the simple product of an over-active imagination.

Like so many mysteries, something is going on. Just wait until I get started on the Loch Ness Monster...

Let's see. There are:

1. Replay ghosts that keep repeating an action

2. Ghosts that re-act to their surroundings and interact with their environment.

3. Orbs of different colors. The only ones I have personally seen have been in photos I have taken.

4. Whatever moves objects around. As in this story:

http://suite101.com/article/old-west-great-ghost-stories-is-this-one-a300930

Are there other types?

[Sally]

Hi Sally
Interesting. How far away were they? Did you approach them?

Hi Abby

I saw lights through the trees and wondered what they were. I assumed that it was some people with torches - though it wasn't that dark, more like dusk, really. So I didn't really pay attention at first, because there were sometimes other people out for an evening walk. But, as I went on, it occurred to me that I couldn't hear any voices, or in fact any 'people' sounds. So then I stopped and had a look.

I did get reasonably close in the end - I guess about 5 metres or so. There were several of them, sort of white, except that they looked as though they were a bit iridescent, like a pearl, maybe. They didn't do much, to be fair, just flitted about for a while and then sort of faded away.

I entertained the idea that they were insects or something, but that isn't very realistic, really. So, I don't know. As I said, I didn't feel concerned, just curious. I hadn't ever seen them before, and (although I would have liked to) I never saw them again.

By the by, I don't really believe in the supernatural; I think that there's a scientific explanation for everything, but that we don't have all the answers yet by a very long way. Given the mysteries of the past, many of which we understand in different, explicable terms today, it seems quite logical to assume that we ourselves are just a little further down the path to understanding.

I have no doubt that we will understand ghosts one day

[Canopy]

The thing is though, Canopy, you can see or hear or experience something, and it still be a fabrication of your own mind, and still be wrong...

To be fair, I will tell this story..

I have a very good long standing friend in England, who is one of the most down to earth people that I could imagine. Some years ago she owned, with her then husband, a tiny cottage in Herstmonceaux. She told me that she had sometimes smelt a strong smell of pipe tobacco on her stairs, and that she knew that the previous owner's husband had died of lung cancer, in her bedroom, from smoking a pipe.

She told me this story when I was questioning her about ghosts because I was already fascinated by the difference in attitude between the South Of France & England on this subject.

In her words " ..that's what I've experienced...make of that what you will..I prefer to ignore it because I live here "

I can tell you that my whole family squashed together in the same bed all night (In the room where the bloke died. Although none of us believed in ghosts !)

...but my friend knew about that man when she was buying the cottage from his widow...so was it just a projection of her imagination just the same ?

I agree about fabrication but I was ASLEEP already when some nasty perfume stink became so strong that it awoke me. I lay there some time wishing for the smell to go away but no - it just got horribly stronger! In the end I turned on the lights, got out of bed and searched the whole room for the source of the smell (much annoyed as I was sleeping and I'm now searching about at probably 3-4 am!) I searched and I could not find so went back to bed, turned light off and tried sleeping...Errr, NO WAY as this smell was now making me not want to breath in! In the end I sat up in bed and said loudly to myself in frustration: "It's like LAVENDER or something!!" CUE door slamming open and the 'windy' yes thing...Honestly, most frightening thing I've come across in my whole life!!!

[curious]

I agree about fabrication but I was ASLEEP already when some nasty perfume stink became so strong that it awoke me. I lay there some time wishing for the smell to go away but no - it just got horribly stronger! In the end I turned on the lights, got out of bed and searched the whole room for the source of the smell (much annoyed as I was sleeping and I'm now searching about at probably 3-4 am!) I searched and I could not find so went back to bed, turned light off and tried sleeping...Errr, NO WAY as this smell was now making me not want to breath in! In the end I sat up in bed and said loudly to myself in frustration: "It's like LAVENDER or something!!" CUE door slamming open and the 'windy' yes thing...Honestly, most frightening thing I've come across in my whole life!!!

Even back in his day, Shakespeare (1564-1616) recognized:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Even in the 21st century, we don't know, we can only wonder and guess -- and discuss.

curious

[kensei]

Came back to this thread after a few days and saw the discussion about orbs. I've had a couple of experiences in that department. I did see ball lightning once as a kid on a summer evening when I was watching heat lightning. Against a near constant background of sheets (not bolts) of orange lightning lighting up the clouds, a white ball of light with a little tail behind it went flitting by. As far away as it was, it could have been huge. No thought of anything supernatural occurred to me- I just went, "Huh, ball lightning. Cool."

Something very different happened when I vacationed in England in 2004. I stayed at a little B & B in Glastonbury and took a photo of my room. When I got it developed, two small white orbs were floating over the bed. One was six or eight inches in diameter over the center of the bed, the other a little smaller and partially obscured by a lamp beside the bed (i.e. behind the lamp), meaning it was not a dust particle or glare on the lens but actually an object of some kind that was out there. Glastonbury being a town that is so in touch with mystical things, I took this to heart and when I returned there again in 2008 I brought the lady who ran the place a copy of the photo, and in preparing to show it to her I asked, "Has anyone ever talked about there being ghosts in this house?" Very matter-of-factly she said, "Oh, I know there are."

More dramatically, I had an episode in 2003 in which I was in a wilderness area and got my car stuck in mud and was stranded there overnight. Ended up having to walk 20 miles the next day to get out, but on that night when I was feeling pretty scared and helpless, before darkness had fully fallen I went out walking hoping another vehicle would come along that I could flag down for help. None came, and I did some heartfelt praying. Then, as I was walking back to my stuck car right at dusk, I started seeing some weird points of light dancing along the treetops which I first thought were fireflies, but it was a little early in the season for them to be out yet. As I watched, the lights coalesced into one large bright white ball of light that was probably a little larger than a basketball that floated along for a few seconds, then faded away. "Okaaaayy..." I thought, feeling no fear at all, and as I pondered it I came to believe that that was quite literally my guardian angel appearing just to let me know- don't worry, you're gonna be ok. Say whatever you like about it, but that's what I saw, and that is what I believe.

Orbs, I think, may be one of the easiest forms for a spirit being- whether ghost or angel or whatever- to take on.

[louisa]

Kensei - that must have been a frightening experience.

I've taken photographs of orbs. However, after asking a few people about them the consensus of opinion seems to be that the 'orbs' were in fact dust particles caught in the glare of the flash on the camera.

[kensei]

Kensei - that must have been a frightening experience.

I've taken photographs of orbs. However, after asking a few people about them the consensus of opinion seems to be that the 'orbs' were in fact dust particles caught in the glare of the flash on the camera.

Hi Louisa- Yes, I know that happens a lot, though as I said I think the one orb being partially behind the lamp in my photo rules it out in that particular case. But it reminds me of some photos I saw right after 9/11 from the World Trade Center site, taken the night of the 11th with rescue operations in full swing. Hundreds of orbs filled the air in these pictures. So were they ghosts, dust particles reflecting the camera flash, or a mixture of both? It was a bit maddening because while hundreds of departed souls could be expected to be floating about in that place and time, it was also quite probably the dustiest place on Earth!

[Scorpio]

I was much taken with the notion of the supernatural as a child,but as i grew older my interest diminished to nothing. This effect is mirrored by western civilisation in general;a belief in the supernatural was once widely accepted, but now is considered the fringe. Rational explanations for 'supernatural activity ' have never been very convincing because it repesents the irrational
element in our consciousness:the intuitive, and emotional.
Why are supernatural experiences always associated with emotional reactions?.

[Robert]

Hi Scorpio

I'm not sure that I accept a division between emotional and rational sides of a person. It all looks pretty emotional to me.

[Sally]

Hi Scorpio

I was much taken with the notion of the supernatural as a child,but as i grew older my interest diminished to nothing. This effect is mirrored by western civilisation in general;a belief in the supernatural was once widely accepted, but now is considered the fringe. Rational explanations for 'supernatural activity ' have never been very convincing because it repesents the irrational
element in our consciousness:the intuitive, and emotional.
Why are supernatural experiences always associated with emotional reactions?.

Well they're not, always - and 'supernatural activity' covers a broad range of phenomena, real or imagined.

I think what we call 'supernatural' today we may very well come to understand tomorrow. Many things that we take for granted today would have appeared magical or inexplicable to our ancestors.

I don't believe that anything exists that cannot be explained; only that we haven't yet the knowledge to explain some things.

[Scorpio]

Hi Scorpio



Well they're not, always - and 'supernatural activity' covers a broad range of phenomena, real or imagined.

I think what we call 'supernatural' today we may very well come to understand tomorrow. Many things that we take for granted today would have appeared magical or inexplicable to our ancestors.

I don't believe that anything exists that cannot be explained; only that we haven't yet the knowledge to explain some things.

Sally,I am intrigued by 'broad range of phenomena '.I am going to organise a photo shoot in an environment that is associated with such phenomena in the near future, as i live in a area with a fairly rich store of ghost folk-lore.