Anyone want to help me solve a mystery from my own family tree?

[RipperNoob]

My grandparents were married in 1949 and separated sometime between 1967 and 1968 because an affair on the part of my grandfather was discovered. They had had a rocky marriage in the years prior and my mother does not even recall when he left for good--Either a buried memory or she just didn't take note of it because my grandmother had thrown him out of the house many times in the past, and I suppose my mother being only a teenager, at the time thought he'd be back eventually and when he didn't return home, she went on with her life.

Anyway, after around 1968 he disappears from my family until 1972 when he apppeared at one of his children's weddings as the father of the bride, and then wasn't heard from again until 1973, when he suffered a stroke and his girlfriend (whom he'd had the affair with) had left him. He was forced to live at home with my grandmother, having no place else to go, and so his whereabouts after 1973 are known with detail.

However, that period from 1968 to 1973 is unknown in terms of where he was, what he was doing, etc. My mother didn't even know his probable address until recently. My grandmother revealed the neighborhood--She knew about it all this time--and my aunt knew his address too as she helped move his things when he had the stroke.

A photograph of him in 1972 also has his last name and an address on the back which corresponds with the neighborhood, leading me to guess that it is in all likelihood where he was living at least in 1972. I have researched the address and it's owners at the time but come up empty handed. It is probable he met his girlfriend at the 1964 World's Fair. He worked there and there is a woman on the film who he repeatedly tapes who seems very affectionate toward him.

What I am looking for is: To find the identity of his girlfriend/mistress. They were together approximately nine years and he even acted as a stepfather to her children, yet no one knows her name. If she is still alive, she may have home movies and photographs of him in this unaccounted for period, and may know much about him--What he was like as a person. My grandmother is bitter and warped and thus will only tell you only bad things he did, oddly she was a lot more positive about him before he died and in the years after he died and has only become more bitter with time (it's been 30+ years since he died in his 50s), and his children have vague happy memories because they were too young to truly "know" him as a person.

[Ally]

I am entirely useless in things like this, but I would ask if he had any friends you know about? I am not entirely sure how we would be of help in tracking down the girlfriend but I would find out who were the long term friends of your grandfather and attempt to contact them. I am sure someone else could be of more help than I can. One of our genealogical researchers or maybe Chris Scott could give you an idea of where to look?? Not to volunteer his services or anything.. but you might ask him for some pointers on where to look.

[RipperNoob]

The only friend of his that I know of fully is long dead. The rest faded out from his life or I only know their first name. He had a lot of friends but things like last names etc are forgotten with time. Only his best friend's name I knew fully but he died in 1973. My grandfather would be in his 90s if he were alive today so it is doubtful any of his friends are alive. All of his siblings are deceased, as well.

[Robert]

Hi Rippernoob

You say you've checked out the address. Did you see the electoral roll to see if he was living there and whether there was anyone living with him?

[RipperNoob]

Hi Rippernoob

You say you've checked out the address. Did you see the electoral roll to see if he was living there and whether there was anyone living with him?

Electoral roll? I have his voter registration card, but it is from 1963--when he was still living with my grandmother. He never had the address changed or updated. On a lone legal document from 1972 (a deed transfer which he and his siblings had to take part in jointly), he does not list his exact address (whereas his siblings on the same legal document do), he only lists his county and state of residence. Also, I have his Driver Licenses from 1969 and 1972-both years he WOULD not have been living at home--yet he uses the address that he and my grandmother shared as his address at the time, despite not living there at the time.

It is unknown how long he lived at the address listed on the back of the photo, but it is not an address connected with any other family member, it corresponds with the neighborhood my grandmother said he was living in, and he was living there at least in 1972 and 1973. He apparently was renting an (illicit) basement apartment with his lady there.

I got in touch with the son of the then owners of the house; His mother was sickly, so he spoke to me. He could only recall a young couple who had dogs living there as tenants around that time; The man I spoke to was a young teenager at the time. My grandfather in the 1970s would've been in his 50s, so not young at all, but did have a fondness for dogs and did still have all black hair. I suppose to a young teen he could've been mistakenly thought of as "young". And on the home movie from 1965 (it's silent) his probable girlfriend appears younger than him by several years. She might've been in her mid-late 40s at the youngest in the early 70s.

[Ally]

As you are an American, the electoral roll that Robert is speaking of is the list of registered voters and their addresses. If you have the address for where he was living in say 1968 or 1970 or whenever, then you could see if the record for that particular district is online (or go down and look up the paper copy yourself) and see if there is a registered female voter that is registered at that same address. It might take a considerable amount of digging but that is one way to uncover it (told you others would help more than I). Some voter records are online, but chances are good for that time period, they are not.

I presume you have already tried Ancestory.com??

[Robert]

Rippernoob, you say he acted as stepfather to her children. I imagine in America when a child starts school the school has to have an address for the child and the child's next of kin. Might the records still exist? If you contact the local schools or the authorities presiding over them, if they turn up a child from that address, that might lead you to the woman's name.

[Robert]

Failing all else, it might be worthwhile hiring a private detective. We had one on the boards a few years ago, I think he was an ex-policeman, though I don't know whether he ever undertook a case whose trail was as cold as this.

[RipperNoob]

Rippernoob, you say he acted as stepfather to her children. I imagine in America when a child starts school the school has to have an address for the child and the child's next of kin. Might the records still exist? If you contact the local schools or the authorities presiding over them, if they turn up a child from that address, that might lead you to the woman's name.

The acting as stepfather thing comes from a bit of inference on my part. In a conversation with my mother sometime after he came home, he mentioned his now ex-girlfriend's daughter was or had been dating an African American man. Do not know the context but it is something which stuck out in my mother's mind. He and his girlfriend were not legally married as my grandparents were never legally divorced and perhaps not even legally separated; I am not sure.

That he mentioned that, along with the fact that he and his girlfriend had been together since around 1965, inferred to me that he might've known the daughter as well. But it is just as possible that his girlfriend was cheating on her husband with my grandfather and that her children didn't really know him, but he knew of her children (by means of them talking). Apparently, when my aunt was married in 1972, my grandmother did not even want my grandfather to attend the wedding. He wanted to come, and my aunt pushed for it, so he was allowed to come under the condition that his girlfriend not come (though my grandmother brought her boyfriend to the wedding), even though his girlfriend had wanted to meet his children. Apparently, he did bring his girlfriend but in secret--My aunt recalled that she talked to her briefly at the reception afterward, but could not recall her name.

As to the voter record thing I will look into it, but as I said, I already have his voter registration card. He pretty much kept a lot of things even if they expired or outdated (like work IDs, his old expired driver licenses, etc etc). If he'd gotten a new voter card with the updated address (as the card says a change of address must be given to the voter registration people), it'd be among his personal effects. It is probable he never re-registered as my grandmother did say he was not much interested in politics.

[Livia]

Hi Rippernoob,

Because the information you're searching for is fairly
recent (marriage in 1949/death circa 1980s) I'm
afraid you're not going to find much as most
online genealogical databases only deal with records
pre-1940 (as a general rule). Ancestry does have
some telephone directories from about the 1950s
through the 2000s, and some high school yearbooks,
some immigration/travel records for that timeframe,
but that's about it.

You might try looking at some genealogical message
boards such as the ones at Ancestry or Rootsweb. A
Google search of his name might turn up something,
most likely offers from subscription sites such
as peoplesearch or Intellius.

The problem is he didn't marry his girlfriend and therefore
it's unlikely that he adopted her children (not allowed
back then) so there's not going to be any "official" sort
of records available for that time period. It's been my
experience that school departments, either through inertia,
incompetence or state regulations, are loathe to divulge
any information about their students, even for those who
attended school in the 19th century. Also, if they were
living together unmarried in the 60s and 70s, it's likely
she was using his name, as that was still not acceptable
in many areas of the country (the exception being in
large cities, college students or hippy communes).

So, I'm afraid the best you can hope for in regard to
your grandfather is information from the 1930 census
and his WWII draft registration card, and maybe information
about his parents, grandparents, etc.

It seems you're reluctant to post his name and location,
but if you want help, send me a pm with your email address
and his particulars and I'll see what I can find.

Edited to add: It looks like your best source to know what
your grandfather was like, is your mother and any siblings
she might have. Also, your mother's cousins, if any, may
have known or remember him.

Liv

[RipperNoob]

Hi Rippernoob,

Because the information you're searching for is fairly
recent (marriage in 1949/death circa 1980s) I'm
afraid you're not going to find much as most
online genealogical databases only deal with records
pre-1940 (as a general rule). Ancestry does have
some telephone directories from about the 1950s
through the 2000s, and some high school yearbooks,
some immigration/travel records for that timeframe,
but that's about it.

Marriage: 1949.
His death: 1975

Yes, most of the records are indeed pre-1940, but what you have to consider is that he seemed, from 1968 to 1973, to live "under the radar." I have checked the directories on Ancestry. Oddly, I found one grandfather's yearbook in total--from 1946--but not the grandfather I'm looking for, who would've graduated between 1937 and 1939. Oddly, he has no passport record, despite being in the Army during WWII, for six and a half years.

You might try looking at some genealogical message
boards such as the ones at Ancestry or Rootsweb. A
Google search of his name might turn up something,
most likely offers from subscription sites such
as peoplesearch or Intellius.

I did one of the pay sites once, where his name came up, but it said further information was needed. There was nothing, despite him dying just 30 years ago. He worked as a Security Guard until his first stroke in 1973, so I would've thought there could've been some record from that (general employment records, pay stubs, etc--stuff that would lead to an address he was living at between '68 and '73.)--but the firm he worked for is long since defunct.

The problem is he didn't marry his girlfriend and therefore
it's unlikely that he adopted her children (not allowed
back then) so there's not going to be any "official" sort
of records available for that time period. It's been my
experience that school departments, either through inertia,
incompetence or state regulations, are loathe to divulge
any information about their students, even for those who
attended school in the 19th century. Also, if they were
living together unmarried in the 60s and 70s, it's likely
she was using his name, as that was still not acceptable
in many areas of the country (the exception being in
large cities, college students or hippy communes).

Yeah I doubt she was using his name. But she exists on a film, in pictures from the '64 World's Fair--she was apparently also an employee, of Traveler's Insurance (she is pictured in the 1965 re-opening parade of that World's Fair with a bunch of Traveler's Insurance women). I don't think I'd be allowed any access to those records since I'm not a next of kin; Even if I was, I don't even have a first name to work from, so I'd have to go through the names of every employee of Traveler's systemically.

So, I'm afraid the best you can hope for in regard to
your grandfather is information from the 1930 census
and his WWII draft registration card, and maybe information
about his parents, grandparents, etc.

Got all of that. Got all of his WWII info in detail from NARA. I know exactly where he was during his Army service and in the period after. The only period I don't know anything about is approx. 1968 to 1973.

It seems you're reluctant to post his name and location,
but if you want help, send me a pm with your email address
and his particulars and I'll see what I can find.

Edited to add: It looks like your best source to know what
your grandfather was like, is your mother and any siblings
she might have. Also, your mother's cousins, if any, may
have known or remember him.

Liv

My mother was 13/14 when he left; her memories are vague. My aunt was around 17, but she is an embellisher when it comes to stories and would find it odd that I'm seeking this information. She is bitter, or, has bad memories. She was the one who revealed his affair to my grandmother, not knowing the impact it would have; She was the one he lived with after his first stroke, she mistreated him during that time; She was with him, next to him, when he died, giving him manual resuscitation. I think it's a lot of bad memories and guilt for her, thus she wouldn't want to talk about it. My other aunt is weird, to be blunt, and my uncle was only 4/5 when he left, no memories, and only 12 when he died, vague memories. And my family is dysfunctional--The living cousins we have don't have much memory of him because the family was fragmented. Only his siblings could've told me something and they're dead, sadly. Even his brother and sister in laws are all gone, and they might've been able to help, too.

[Canopy]

I wish you the best of luck...am a bit of a family tree guru but have always worked with 1800s or previous. I would imagine your trail will lead to personal, local 'digging'...GOOD LUCK with it and let us know what comes of your 'digging'.

[Bridewell]

Hi Rippernoob,

If he was a WWII veteran, he could have gone to regimental reunions or have been a member of a veterans' association of some sort. My late father was a member of the Coastal Forces Veterans Association, whose secretary he knew very well, and with whom he corresponded. Did he have a favourite watering hole where one of the old hands might still remember him?
As you've got a film featuring the woman you're trying to find, you could perhaps take a still from that and maybe even drum up a bit of media interest. In the UK the Daily Mail runs a "Lost" and "Found" column which attempts to reunite people who've lost touch. Is there something like that where you live?

You may have to accept, though that, even if she sees something like that, the lady concerned may have no interest in stirring up what could be painful memories of her own.

Good luck with you enquiries & please let us know on this thread if you have any success.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Beowulf]

I am entirely useless in things like this, but I would ask if he had any friends you know about? I am not entirely sure how we would be of help in tracking down the girlfriend but I would find out who were the long term friends of your grandfather and attempt to contact them. I am sure someone else could be of more help than I can. One of our genealogical researchers or maybe Chris Scott could give you an idea of where to look?? Not to volunteer his services or anything.. but you might ask him for some pointers on where to look.

If your grandmother is still alive you should ask her the woman's name and anything else you can get. She is more likely the hottest lead you have.

"What was her name Where did he meet her?" Coming from a sympathizing person, she may want to talk after all this time, who knows.