Ufology

[Jonathan H]

So do I, that's why I reject Good's works.

[louisa]

OMG! Some people are very angry. Maybe you protest too much?

Luckily I believe in logic.

[Jonathan H]

What Good peddles is demonstrably false rubbish, which -- as a toxic, by-product -- feeds the beast of extreme right-wing paranoia/propaganda; that all governments are evil, secretive, and at war with their own citizens.

A 'mark' is a person who is so gullible they can be taken to the cleaners in, say, a card game.

[louisa]

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions.

I have no idea what this 'mark' is that you keep referring to. Is it a 'Jonathan-ism'?

[Jonathan H]

No, I'm afraid Good doesn't.

He knows almost nothing about the real story of U.F.O.'s. But he believes a great deal about it, and you can only do that from a position of willful ignorance because of the need to.

But I would like to think he is a mark, for whilst it is not much it is not nothing either.

If I can recommend a great, great book on the subject:

'Watch the Skies' (1994) by Curtis Peebles

[louisa]

If you were ever to meet Timothy Good you would realise just how genuine he is. He believes wholeheartedly in his subject and he and I have exchange many emails on this.

It might be worth your while having a look at some of his YouTube interviews then you can see for yourself.

He knows a lot more about the subject than you or I will ever know.

[Jonathan H]

In gambling there are two kinds of people, 'smarts' and 'marks'.

I would like to believe Good is an endearingly naive mark, rather than a smart cynically making a living off some people's gullibility and unfulfilled religious needs.

[louisa]

Timothy Good certainly can't be accused of believing every UFO story that he hears! The eye witness accounts in his books are ones that he personally has verified to the best of his ability.

If he were to publish all the UFO stories that he hears then he would have published hundreds of books!

[Jonathan H]

Timothy Good's book 'Above Top Secret' is fun, but as an expose on government cover-ups it is terminally weak.

Good simply believes every UFO/alien tale he is told, the classic example of his being hoaxed -- it did not take much -- is that he believed the 'Majestic-12' document forgeries (which were also fun, especially the coyote who took off with a dead alien) which are the real moment when 'Roswell' became the UFO incident.

Conspiracy 'theorists' miss that the U.S. Army/Air-Force was initially -- and secretly -- panicked by 'flying saucer' reports, believing the craft to be extra-terrestrial visitors, or worse invaders. This was Project Sign. But cooler military heads began to grasp that the accounts by reliable witnesses were mistaken about what they thought they were seeing in terms of speed, trajectory and shape (plus that the original sighting of 'flying saucers', by reliable witness Kenneth Arnold, were of no such thing).

[kensei]

Louisa- have you seen Leslie Kean's 2010 book "UFOs- Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record"? It's an excellent collection of reports by witnesses who couldn't be considered anything but credible heavy hitters.

And Phil- IF there has been a huge coverup by governments of alien presence on Earth, recovered UFOs, back-engineered technology, etc., I would hardly refer to it as "highly successful." If it had been that, no one would be talking about it. Instead, the fact that books and films and t.v. specials have spelled out practically every detail of what governments are alleged to be up to in places like Area 51 to the point where it's become part of pop culture would seem to indicate that the coverup has been one of the worst attempts at secret-keeping ever attempted.

I've always said that about the whole field of "conspiracy theory." What does the term mean? Simply that someone has a theory that someone else has conspired, which people certainly do all the time. But somehow the term's become synonymous with "crazy nonsense," and for each well known conspiracy theory someone will skeptically say, "There's no way something that big could have been kept secret for so long." To which I say- exactly! The only reason we're talking about it at all is because you're absolutely right!

Then of course there's always the point of view that if you want to work in some top secret operation on a grand scale that mustn't ever be fully revealed and proven, make sure it's something so crazy-sounding that even if every detail of it leaks out you will still have complete immunity because the mainstream will never believe it.

[louisa]

Well I think they must be capable because they have covered it up.

Talking about reverse engineering - what is to be made of Corso's book about it...I think it's titled 'The Day After Roswell' ?

Surely somebody in his position wouldn't make something like that up, would he?

[Phil H]

I have several of Mr Good's books.

They are well written and interesting, yet the problem for me remains that there is so little corroboration, not much that cannot be explained by other (perhaps less unorthodox) causes - aircraft on triels/meteorological events, the moon, reflections etc.

Where there are crashes the clean-up is so complete that no trace is detectable - is that really conceivable? Where something is seen, there are never more than a handful of witnesses. I do not dispute that they may all have seen something - only that it was not alien.

To my mind the best evidence that aliens have visted earth in recent years would be that such an occurance might explain leaps in technological advance through reverse engineering or shared science. But that would imply a HUGE, global and highly successful cover-up conspiracy.

I can conceive of the reasons for such a cover-up - the shock, the impact on the religious beliefs of millions, the psychological effect on earthlings of finding that not only are we alone, but we aren't even in the top class - would be historically enormous and perhaps unleash all sorts of distructive forces (mental and physical). I just question whether Governments are capable of keeping such a big secret for a sustained period.

Phil

[louisa]

Hi, I would agree with you. However, Timothy Good has researched his sources well. These aren't simply accounts like "Mrs. Bloggs of Moose Droppings, Iowa, looked up in the sky last year and saw an unexplained flying object". All the cases in Timothy Good's books are given by either persons in the military or airline pilots. He names these and give times and dates.

Airline pilots and military personnel are very reticient about talking about these kinds of sightings, therefore any accounts should be treated seriously.

Timothy Good lives very close to me in Bromley, Kent (UK) and he gives lectures at schools about the subject, with slide shows. He is also a professional violinist with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, so I'm presuming he's a well educated person.

[Scorpio]

Hello. I am new to this board but have had a lifelong interest in the subject of UFO's.

I have a great deal of respect for Timothy Good - the author of many books on the subject, including Above Top Secret. This is a fascinating book full of eyewitness accounts by the military and by airline pilots. He has written other books, equally absorbing.

I was wondering if anyone here has read the book 'The Uninvited?' by Clive Harold (not to be confused with many other books of the same title).

I have spoken to one of the main characters (or should I say 'victims) in this case and she is an old lady now, and entirely plausible.

Hi, I did read Above Top Secret a few years ago. I thought some of the cases mentioned in the book did not do Ufology any good.
I think anecdotal evidence without some empirical form of evidence to back it up should be avoided.

[louisa]

Hello. I am new to this board but have had a lifelong interest in the subject of UFO's.

I have a great deal of respect for Timothy Good - the author of many books on the subject, including Above Top Secret. This is a fascinating book full of eyewitness accounts by the military and by airline pilots. He has written other books, equally absorbing.

I was wondering if anyone here has read the book 'The Uninvited?' by Clive Harold (not to be confused with many other books of the same title).

I have spoken to one of the main characters (or should I say 'victims) in this case and she is an old lady now, and entirely plausible.