Diana Spencer

[Phil H]

Kensei

There is a generation of men and women (all over the world I guess but certainly in the UK) who grew up adoring Diana as a fashion model and as a beauty/pin-up.

I suspect her death was a real shock and a trauma for them - hence the embarrassing and un-british outpouring of grief in the week leading up to her funeral.

In part the Princess of Wales title, is a reflection of the dislike some Diana-loyalists feel to her successor, Camillla. Although entitled to be called Princess of Wales (as wife of the Prince), Camilla is referred to formally as Duchess of Cornwall (Charles is Duke of Cornwall as eldest son of the Sovereign) rather then using a title so associated with Diana.

In strict protocol terms, had Diana lived having divorced Charles (and lost her HRH) she would have been Diana, Princess of Wales; while Camilla would have been HRH The Princess of Wales (as indeed she is).

I think most of us in the UK have now moved on from Diana. It is clear she was in large part responsible for her own tragedy. The royal family may not have been the most supportive of groups, but I don't think Diana helped herself. Undoubtedly she possessed real charisma and trail-blazed a new path for royalty (of the more relaxed, tochy-feely variety) and I think William and Kate are learning from that. But I don't see Diana as a team player (she has the opportunity to gain a popularity akin to that of the late Queen Mother, but did not have the persistence) - or suited for that role - she was too emotional and visibly moody.

For all that, Diana certainly changed the monarchy and its approach in good ways, but as I have said, I think she has probably benefited from dying when she did - she is now caught in aspic forever.

By the way, I don't think most "Brits" are very knowledgeable about titles these days nor deferential or respectful. I think you spoke to a "fan" for whom it was important.

Phil

[Bob Hinton]

I agree weith most posters - that Diana died in a car crash because she was not wearing a seat belt and the driver was prbably drunk or nearly so.

Diana was far too young and dim for Prince Charles. They should never have married. When she finally woke up and smelled the coffee - she decided on a course of action that would elevate her to the icon she became. A good hair cut and a bit of hair dye - expensive clothes - a personal trainer - endless photo opportunities - bashful looks and little tears squeezed out here and there for effect - undoubtedly a lot of good charity work but with equal amounts of publicity - a love of children and old poeople and animals and teminally ill people - a messy divorce and embarrassing accusations (justified nevertheless) and finally the tragic death.

Sorry if I sound flippant - but I much prefer quieter and more modest Royals who may not be so attractive but who work very hard in the background and seek no publicity. Anne is an example.

Don’t you kid yourself she knew exactly what she was doing. The first thing she did when they married was to fire Charles valet and personal confident. Charles had known this man from birth and looked upon him as a kindly uncle. He was devastated when Diana got rid of him. She then proceeded to dispense with all those friends of Charles, completely isolating him.

I fully concur with what you say about Anne.

[kensei]

Kensei

By the way, I don't think most "Brits" are very knowledgeable about titles these days nor deferential or respectful. I think you spoke to a "fan" for whom it was important.

Phil

Well, she was a blonde 20-something in spandex running gear carrying a duffel bag, and we met on opposite sides of a fence near the fountain where I was trying to figure out how to get to the fountain and she was trying to negotiate it the other way, her bag getting caught on the fence as she tried to climb over. I asked if I could hold her bag for her, and she first said no as if she maybe thought I was hitting on her, but then she got caught up even worse and said, "Ah, actually yeah, if you don't mind." And then as she climbed over came my question about the fountain and her correcting me. A Diana fan? Yeah, I'll buy that.

[Phil H]

Bob,

I think there are more than three methods of getting rid of "embarrassing" people -you do not mention discrediting them, or threatening their relatives, ruining them financially or blackmail - all quite effective, I'd think.

Catch a cold. The person is killed. (comes from the saying “So and so caught a cold which unfortunately turned into pneumonia”)

There have certainly been assassinations in Britain - the Bulgarians killed a man with a poisoned umbrella tip and (Litvinenko?) was killed by drinking radioactive tea. But a car crash seems to me very crude, risky and inefficient.

Moreover, there are better explanations of the accident - including a drunk driver going too fast.

Phil

[Limehouse]

Don’t you kid yourself she knew exactly what she was doing. The first thing she did when they married was to fire Charles valet and personal confident.

Well - to be fair - perhaps she thought it was about time a man of thirty-odd learned to wash and dress himself!

[Joseph]

I remember the day of Princess Diana's death extremely well. Just over 24 hours earlier I had gone with my girlfriend at the time [who just happened to be a Diane] to see a movie that went on UK release that same day, Friday, August 29th. The name of that movie......"Conspiracy Theory".

[Phil H]

Well - to be fair - perhaps she thought it was about time a man of thirty-odd learned to wash and dress himself!

Midly amusing.

But have you ever tried to accountre yourself in the full dress uniform of colonel of a Guards Regiment? Return from the parade, change into a suit for afternoon meetings, then maybe change again into a DJ or white tie for the evening?

That is what valets are for - to manage the complicated business of"costume" for a public figure. Charles' wardrobe must contain hundreds of uniforms and special clothing from morning suits to sports gear, Parliamentary robes to academic dress. Add to that the complex nuances of orders and decorations (when are miniatures worn, when full size medal bars) - get a ribbon of an order over the wrong shoulder and you can cause diplomatic offence.

If a royal male is given (say) a "club" or official tie by an organisation, he will be wearing it when he next meets a member of that organisation. Similarly with jewellery for women - the Queen has brooches given her by many military and civil people that need to be brought out at the appropriate time.

Thus card indexes (maybe databases) are kept and referred to.

I suspect the toothpaste on the brush etc is probably something the valet does over the years without being asked and just becomes a habit/custom.

Just a few thoughts about a world very different from that most of us are used to.

Phil

[Ally]

LOL..so Charles was "devastated" when he found out Diana had fired his valet? SO what, he sat on his hands and wept and wailed? It never occurred to him to ..oh I don't know...hire the man back and tell Diana to keep her hands off his personal staff?

I don't think Diana was some paragon or a saint but attempting to make her out to be a villain for running her household how she wished and Charles apparently not having a spine is kind of a weak argument.

[Sally]

I think Diana was a victim of a RTA. Just goes to show what a bad idea it is to get into a car with a drunk driver.

When a young, famous person dies unexpectedly, a conspiracy theory is par for the course, isn't it?

Today is also the anniversary of the Battle of the Somme, incidentally - now there's a bit of perspective.

[The Grave Maurice]

Princess Diana did much to reinvigorate interest in the monarchy throughout the Commonwealth, including my own country. As has been noted, had she had the good sense to use a seat belt, she would probably still be with us and there would be no need for talk of conspiracies.

[Adam Went]

The thing is that whenever there is a huge, notorious event like that, there will be conspiracy theoriest to go along with it - just last night I was watching a docco about some conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 being an inside job. That's just to name one of hundreds of examples throughout history.

Other posters are spot on - alcohol, plus high powered car which is speeding = disaster waiting to happen. But most people just don't get the message about road safety and never will unless they are personally affected by it. Every single day I see dozens of people stupidly breaking road rules, some of them with small children in the back and what not - it beggars belief. But I won't rant here.

Having said all of that, it would be interesting to know whatever became of the Fiat...

Cheers,
Adam.

[Bob Hinton]

LOL..so Charles was "devastated" when he found out Diana had fired his valet? SO what, he sat on his hands and wept and wailed? It never occurred to him to ..oh I don't know...hire the man back and tell Diana to keep her hands off his personal staff?

I don't think Diana was some paragon or a saint but attempting to make her out to be a villain for running her household how she wished and Charles apparently not having a spine is kind of a weak argument.

It wasn’t quite as simple as that. Diana made sure that Charles was distanced from all of his friends and supporters whilst surrounding herself with a load of so called ‘friends’ and sycophants.

She was determined that any spotlight was only going to shine on her.
It wasn’t her household – it was the household of the Prince of Wales. If Charles had put his foot down, how many people would have rushed into print accusing him of being a bully?

Just look at how so many of her friends couldn’t wait to cash in on her fame once she was dead. How many books have been written about her by people who professed friendship? A person can be judged by their friends and Diana seemed to have had a pretty shabby lot.

[Ally]

It wasn’t quite as simple as that. Diana made sure that Charles was distanced from all of his friends and supporters whilst surrounding herself with a load of so called ‘friends’ and sycophants.

Oh what a crock of crap. Diana "made sure"? So, what, is Charles actually mentally retarded and incapable of making a decision or standing up for himself? Is he so easily led by his nose that's he's incapable of maintaining friendships without his wife's approval? Seems kind of contradictory to the affair he managed to maintain all the while he was married. So what, he managed to keep banging some chick despite his wife's "making sure he was distanced from all his friends" but he couldn't keep a valet and his poker buddies around? Please. What a crock.

She was determined that any spotlight was only going to shine on her.
It wasn’t her household – it was the household of the Prince of Wales. If Charles had put his foot down, how many people would have rushed into print accusing him of being a bully?

Ah I see.. so he didn't want to look like a bully, just a cheating bastard with dreams of being a tampon. Yeah..I can see how public opinion really swayed his decisions in his marriage. Again, I say, please.

You don't get to blame Diana for the fact that Charles was apparently a complete sap and allowed her to fire his valet. He had the option of hiring the man back. Neither one of them was a saint, but they are BOTH equally responsible for what occurred in their marriage. Charles was not some passive, helpless victim, and quite frankly if he was, do you really want that kind of a loser as the future head of your country? What a pathetic, hapless moron you paint him to be.

[babybird67]

did someone force Charles to propose to her?

while he was in love with someone else?

[Hatchett]

Hello Bob,

I wonder what Elton John would think of your view on Diana's friends.

Best wishes.