Diana Spencer

[The Grave Maurice]

Princess Diana did much to reinvigorate interest in the monarchy throughout the Commonwealth, including my own country. As has been noted, had she had the good sense to use a seat belt, she would probably still be with us and there would be no need for talk of conspiracies.

[Sally]

I think Diana was a victim of a RTA. Just goes to show what a bad idea it is to get into a car with a drunk driver.

When a young, famous person dies unexpectedly, a conspiracy theory is par for the course, isn't it?

Today is also the anniversary of the Battle of the Somme, incidentally - now there's a bit of perspective.

[Ally]

LOL..so Charles was "devastated" when he found out Diana had fired his valet? SO what, he sat on his hands and wept and wailed? It never occurred to him to ..oh I don't know...hire the man back and tell Diana to keep her hands off his personal staff?

I don't think Diana was some paragon or a saint but attempting to make her out to be a villain for running her household how she wished and Charles apparently not having a spine is kind of a weak argument.

[Phil H]

Well - to be fair - perhaps she thought it was about time a man of thirty-odd learned to wash and dress himself!

Midly amusing.

But have you ever tried to accountre yourself in the full dress uniform of colonel of a Guards Regiment? Return from the parade, change into a suit for afternoon meetings, then maybe change again into a DJ or white tie for the evening?

That is what valets are for - to manage the complicated business of"costume" for a public figure. Charles' wardrobe must contain hundreds of uniforms and special clothing from morning suits to sports gear, Parliamentary robes to academic dress. Add to that the complex nuances of orders and decorations (when are miniatures worn, when full size medal bars) - get a ribbon of an order over the wrong shoulder and you can cause diplomatic offence.

If a royal male is given (say) a "club" or official tie by an organisation, he will be wearing it when he next meets a member of that organisation. Similarly with jewellery for women - the Queen has brooches given her by many military and civil people that need to be brought out at the appropriate time.

Thus card indexes (maybe databases) are kept and referred to.

I suspect the toothpaste on the brush etc is probably something the valet does over the years without being asked and just becomes a habit/custom.

Just a few thoughts about a world very different from that most of us are used to.

Phil

[Joseph]

I remember the day of Princess Diana's death extremely well. Just over 24 hours earlier I had gone with my girlfriend at the time [who just happened to be a Diane] to see a movie that went on UK release that same day, Friday, August 29th. The name of that movie......"Conspiracy Theory".

[Limehouse]

Don’t you kid yourself she knew exactly what she was doing. The first thing she did when they married was to fire Charles valet and personal confident.

Well - to be fair - perhaps she thought it was about time a man of thirty-odd learned to wash and dress himself!

[Phil H]

Bob,

I think there are more than three methods of getting rid of "embarrassing" people -you do not mention discrediting them, or threatening their relatives, ruining them financially or blackmail - all quite effective, I'd think.

Catch a cold. The person is killed. (comes from the saying “So and so caught a cold which unfortunately turned into pneumonia”)

There have certainly been assassinations in Britain - the Bulgarians killed a man with a poisoned umbrella tip and (Litvinenko?) was killed by drinking radioactive tea. But a car crash seems to me very crude, risky and inefficient.

Moreover, there are better explanations of the accident - including a drunk driver going too fast.

Phil

[kensei]

Kensei

By the way, I don't think most "Brits" are very knowledgeable about titles these days nor deferential or respectful. I think you spoke to a "fan" for whom it was important.

Phil

Well, she was a blonde 20-something in spandex running gear carrying a duffel bag, and we met on opposite sides of a fence near the fountain where I was trying to figure out how to get to the fountain and she was trying to negotiate it the other way, her bag getting caught on the fence as she tried to climb over. I asked if I could hold her bag for her, and she first said no as if she maybe thought I was hitting on her, but then she got caught up even worse and said, "Ah, actually yeah, if you don't mind." And then as she climbed over came my question about the fountain and her correcting me. A Diana fan? Yeah, I'll buy that.

[Bob Hinton]

I agree weith most posters - that Diana died in a car crash because she was not wearing a seat belt and the driver was prbably drunk or nearly so.

Diana was far too young and dim for Prince Charles. They should never have married. When she finally woke up and smelled the coffee - she decided on a course of action that would elevate her to the icon she became. A good hair cut and a bit of hair dye - expensive clothes - a personal trainer - endless photo opportunities - bashful looks and little tears squeezed out here and there for effect - undoubtedly a lot of good charity work but with equal amounts of publicity - a love of children and old poeople and animals and teminally ill people - a messy divorce and embarrassing accusations (justified nevertheless) and finally the tragic death.

Sorry if I sound flippant - but I much prefer quieter and more modest Royals who may not be so attractive but who work very hard in the background and seek no publicity. Anne is an example.

Don’t you kid yourself she knew exactly what she was doing. The first thing she did when they married was to fire Charles valet and personal confident. Charles had known this man from birth and looked upon him as a kindly uncle. He was devastated when Diana got rid of him. She then proceeded to dispense with all those friends of Charles, completely isolating him.

I fully concur with what you say about Anne.

[Phil H]

Kensei

There is a generation of men and women (all over the world I guess but certainly in the UK) who grew up adoring Diana as a fashion model and as a beauty/pin-up.

I suspect her death was a real shock and a trauma for them - hence the embarrassing and un-british outpouring of grief in the week leading up to her funeral.

In part the Princess of Wales title, is a reflection of the dislike some Diana-loyalists feel to her successor, Camillla. Although entitled to be called Princess of Wales (as wife of the Prince), Camilla is referred to formally as Duchess of Cornwall (Charles is Duke of Cornwall as eldest son of the Sovereign) rather then using a title so associated with Diana.

In strict protocol terms, had Diana lived having divorced Charles (and lost her HRH) she would have been Diana, Princess of Wales; while Camilla would have been HRH The Princess of Wales (as indeed she is).

I think most of us in the UK have now moved on from Diana. It is clear she was in large part responsible for her own tragedy. The royal family may not have been the most supportive of groups, but I don't think Diana helped herself. Undoubtedly she possessed real charisma and trail-blazed a new path for royalty (of the more relaxed, tochy-feely variety) and I think William and Kate are learning from that. But I don't see Diana as a team player (she has the opportunity to gain a popularity akin to that of the late Queen Mother, but did not have the persistence) - or suited for that role - she was too emotional and visibly moody.

For all that, Diana certainly changed the monarchy and its approach in good ways, but as I have said, I think she has probably benefited from dying when she did - she is now caught in aspic forever.

By the way, I don't think most "Brits" are very knowledgeable about titles these days nor deferential or respectful. I think you spoke to a "fan" for whom it was important.

Phil

[Bob Hinton]

But I do still hold it as a slight possibility.

There are three main ways of getting rid of someone who is in need of being got rid of, or there used to be.

Buying the farm. This means the person concerned has cocked up big time but with no real malice or danger. They are quietly retired with all their benefits.

Pass the cash. Buying someone off, always dangerous – the other side might offer more.

Catch a cold. The person is killed. (comes from the saying “So and so caught a cold which unfortunately turned into pneumonia”)

[kensei]

How rude making a guest in our country feel uncomfortable for no good reason!

Not at all- I totally deserved it.

[Limehouse]

I agree weith most posters - that Diana died in a car crash because she was not wearing a seat belt and the driver was prbably drunk or nearly so.

Diana was far too young and dim for Prince Charles. They should never have married. When she finally woke up and smelled the coffee - she decided on a course of action that would elevate her to the icon she became. A good hair cut and a bit of hair dye - expensive clothes - a personal trainer - endless photo opportunities - bashful looks and little tears squeezed out here and there for effect - undoubtedly a lot of good charity work but with equal amounts of publicity - a love of children and old poeople and animals and teminally ill people - a messy divorce and embarrassing accusations (justified nevertheless) and finally the tragic death.

Sorry if I sound flippant - but I much prefer quieter and more modest Royals who may not be so attractive but who work very hard in the background and seek no publicity. Anne is an example.

[Bob Hinton]

after the airport- "Is this the Diana fountain?" And she didn't just say "yes." She said, "Princess of Wales, yeah." I got the impression that she was correcting me, that the Brits take very seriously the way in which Diana is referred to. We use her title, you ignorant American!

How rude making a guest in our country feel uncomfortable for no good reason!

[Bob Hinton]

Kensei

MI5 = internal intelligence (equivalent to FBI in some ways) should not do much overseas.

MI6 = foreign intelligence = (equivalent to CIA) not allowed to do work in UK.

Phil

Not quite. MI5 is counter intelligence and MI6 is Intelligence. Traditionally their roles have meant that MI5 tend to work at home and MI6 abroad, but over the last forty years or so that has changed.