Billie Jo Jenkins

[jimornot?]

Dear all

I don't think anything has been started on this subject matter yet. The case is in the news again today as her step father Sion Jenkins (who served something like 6 years for her murder before finally being retried in 2006 and found not guilty) has had a claim for £500k compensation rejected. This is apparently because the Ministry of Justice stated something to the effect that only people who are clearly innocent are entitled to damages for a miscarriage of justice.

Surely if he has been found not guilty (maybe I have that wrong?) he is innocent? Interested in any views on this and indeed the case as a whole forexample where did the police get to in their investigations of a mentally ill tramp seen in the area?

thanks

Viv

[Ally]

I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US a verdict of not guilty is not a verdict of innocence. It is the burden of the state to PROVE they committed the offense they are tried for and if the burden of proof is not met, then that means the prosecution failed to prove its case, not that the person did not commit the crime. So a person can be found not guilty in a criminal court, but can still be tried (for monetary damages) in a civil court and be found liable for the crime and forced to pay (as happened in a famous case-OJ simpson).

In that specific case though, he wasn't found not guilty according to the article I read, the jury failed to reach a verdict twice, allowing him to be acquitted on technicality. Which is not the same thing as being found not guilty, though the article may have gotten it wrong.

[Natalie Severn]

You are correct Ally.It is for the prosecution to prove guilt and two juries failed to agree in this case.This doesn"t mean they found him innocent.
The tramp story has not been corroborated as I understand.
His then wife and four children will have nothing to do with him.They have gone to live in Australia.

[Zodiac]

You are correct Ally.It is for the prosecution to prove guilt and two juries failed to agree in this case.This doesn"t mean they found him innocent.
The tramp story has not been corroborated as I understand.
His then wife and four children will have nothing to do with him.They have gone to live in Australia.

I believe that in Scottish Law they have verdicts of "Proven", the equivalent of "Guilty" in English law. "Not Guilty", exactly as in the English system and one of "Not Proven", which I think would probably be the verdict in this case, had it occurred in Scotland.

Best wishes,

Zodiac.

[jimornot?]

You are correct Ally.It is for the prosecution to prove guilt and two juries failed to agree in this case.This doesn"t mean they found him innocent.
The tramp story has not been corroborated as I understand.
His then wife and four children will have nothing to do with him.They have gone to live in Australia.

hi Norma

I understood that the tramp was the first suspect for the police. It may not ahve been a tramp in fact but potentially a local man with mental illness who was behaving starngely on the night of the murder. But if he had mental illness, he might not always behave in a consitent mamer anyway???

I believe SJ's ex wife later gave accounts of mood swings and aggression which might have helped convince her of the possibility of hiss guilt. There are all kinds of rumours about his treatment of the girls including apparently hitting them with a slipper or a naughty stick and evidence given in court from Billie Jo's frineds indicated she had confided in them of being subjected to some violence

I thought that 2 of his daughters (in one of his appeals) more or less verified his alibi in that he followed them fairly quickly to the car on the way to a DIY shop although the visit was thought to have been proven as unnecessary.

I think overall you are quite right he was not found guilty but not given a ringing endoresment either of being innocent.

atb

viv

[jimornot?]

I believe that in Scottish Law they have verdicts of "Proven", the equivalent of "Guilty" in English law. "Not Guilty", exactly as in the English system and one of "Not Proven", which I think would probably be the verdict in this case, had it occurred in Scotland.

Best wishes,

Zodiac.

I agree Zodiac - wonder why English law has not adopted this? Would eliminate all questions of compensation for wrongful arrest I'd think

atb

viv

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Zodiac and Viv. It struck me that as his behaviour previously towards his wife, was reported as being less than ok [from the point of view of domestic violence] I am inclined to be unconvinced of his innocence.
Norma

[Bob Hinton]

Very interesting but,

Thanks Zodiac and Viv. It struck me that as his behaviour previously towards his wife, was reported as being less than ok [from the point of view of domestic violence] I am inclined to be unconvinced of his innocence.
Norma

Where do these tales of domestic abuse come from? Is it more than one source or just from the wife?

[caz]

If only Billie Jo could talk...

But murdered foster daughters can't tell tales, can they?

I just hope Jenkins never loses his temper again. He's a strange one. He lied about his qualifications on his job application but he's obviously no thicko. Yet he reacted with anger and surprise when the police, who didn't know him from Adam at the time of the murder, wanted to question him about it. He thought that a man of his lofty position should have automatically been considered above suspicion and was resentful to find he wasn't.

That kind of arrogant denial reminds me of Shipman.

Love,

Caz
X

[kennyo]

Billie Jo

If only Billie Jo could talk...

But murdered foster daughters can't tell tales, can they?

I just hope Jenkins never loses his temper again. He's a strange one. He lied about his qualifications on his job application but he's obviously no thicko. Yet he reacted with anger and surprise when the police, who didn't know him from Adam at the time of the murder, wanted to question him about it. He thought that a man of his lofty position should have automatically been considered above suspicion and was resentful to find he wasn't.

That kind of arrogant denial reminds me of Shipman.

Love,

Caz
X

Shipman always had the look of a killer in his eyes, believe me I'm usually quite a good guesser but this bloke just doesn't look like a killer to me. It's a strange case though and the police enquiries seemed to have stopped which is never a good sign. The previous thread was right though, he was never found innocent, two juries couldn't return a majority verdict... a stalemate under British Law.

[jimornot?]

Where do these tales of domestic abuse come from? Is it more than one source or just from the wife?

hi Bob

certainly mainly his ex wife stated it. Apparently friends of Biilie Jo spoke of her suffering in silence (can't recall if there was anything more specific given other than the notion that if the truth got out both parents would lose their jobs - he as a teacher, she as something to do with social work)

i seem to recall other witnesses alluding to it but really can't be definite and if such people exist at all, they may have been jumping on the bandwagon.

atb

viv

[Chris]

I believe that in Scottish Law they have verdicts of "Proven", the equivalent of "Guilty" in English law. "Not Guilty", exactly as in the English system and one of "Not Proven", which I think would probably be the verdict in this case, had it occurred in Scotland.

For some reason I was reminded of the comment by Diane Abbott - the next prime minister - on the O. J. Simpson trial.

[Zodiac]

If the glove don't fit, it don't mean sh*t!!! LOL.

For some reason I was reminded of the comment by Diane Abbott - the next prime minister - on the O. J. Simpson trial.

Hi Chris,

My Rottwieler is called O.J. He's big, he's black, he can run faster than any man, he loves to play ball games and everyone tells me that I let him get away with murder!!!

Best wishes,

Zodiac.

[sdreid]

Yes, here in the U.S., you actually have to sue (or petition) the State to be declared innocent. Most don't bother. Sam Sheppard's family tried it a few years ago and failed. I believe a former convict (Jennifer Lockmiller murder) here in Illinois named Alan Beaman might be on the path to doing it. A successful finding is being called a "certification of innocence". Despite some people's beliefs, even pardons or commutations are not necessarily a findings of innocence. It may just mean that the person in power thinks you've been punished enough even if you did it.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Chris,

My Rottwieler is called O.J. He's big, he's black, he can run faster than any man, he loves to play ball games and everyone tells me that I let him get away with murder!!!

Best wishes,

Zodiac.

Nice one !