The Shroud Of Turin

[DVV]

I drank 15 pastis with them just the other day.
I can tell you they're all fond of salt peanuts.

Amitiés,
David

[belinda]

Hi Belinda,

yes there is a consensus (consensus doesn't mean unanimity, of course).
Jesus has most certainly existed, and I know no university that teaches otherwise.
This was a 19th century debate. Now it's 2010.

Amitiés,
David

No I still disagree and I am aware of the date

[The Good Michael]

In two months I will talk to the Chileans about Jesus. They will know.


Mike

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

As an agnostic, I'd like to see some secular historical information matching the info of the gospels:

For example, any secular info about an unexplained earthquake in the Palestine region, that happened together with a sudden eclipse around 30 ad etc...

All the best
Jukka

[DVV]

No I still disagree and I am aware of the date

What are you disagreeing with ?
The established fact that almost all serious historians on the subject are of opinion that Jesus has most certainly existed ?

[belinda]

What are you disagreeing with ?
The established fact that almost all serious historians on the subject are of opinion that Jesus has most certainly existed ?

I am saying it is not an ëstablished fact that "all serious historians" agree Jesus existed

[DVV]

That's indeed what you're saying.
And you're wrong.

[Archaic]

Hi, guys.

What is our working definition of the phrase "all serious historians"? Are we all serious historians? Or is that all in the eye of the beholder?

I think it's rare to find absolute unanimity in any field of historical inquiry.

For myself, I accept it as an established historical fact that Jesus of Nazareth lived, and I also personally believe it to be utterly true.

Best regards, Archaic

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Archaic!

But Jesus has changed in time;

For example; in the catacombs Jesus is presented as a 25-year-old shepherd without a beard and with a short hair!

The Jesus we know by outlook was a compromise to the Roman gods one to my knowledge!

All the best
Jukka

[Archaic]

Hi Jukka.

Yeah, I bet Jesus didn't have curly blonde hair and blue eyes like in the artwork we see.

We have a family joke because years ago my Uncle Jimmy was such a cherubic baby that my Grandmother's friends who were Catholic Nuns all raved how he "looked just like The Christ Child!!"... we still tease him about it to this day.

Cheers, Archaic

[DVV]

Hi Jukka,

Jesus hair is an interesting question...

Remember Paul who said it's a shame for a man to have long hair...

Curiously enough, Muhammad was said to have long hair at the beginning of his predication, according to Muslim sources - but this detail has been quite forgotten, while Jesus hair, in the meantime, seems to have grown...

Amitiés,
David

[Tom_Wescott]

Belinda seems to take great pride in her atheism. No doubt it makes her feel smart.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ally]

Oh? Does Christianity make you feel stupid?

[Tom_Wescott]

It makes me feel sexy.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jonathan H]

The majority consensus amongst historians is that Jesus of Nazareth, stripped of any supernatural pretensions, existed at the time of Pilate and was a minor figure when he was crucified by that Roman thug -- alone. The movement he inspired was major, and retrospectively, inevitably enlarged their founder's impact at the time he walked the Earth.

To say it is blaspheme to hold the opinion that Jesus Christ never literally existed is a narrow, sectarian point of view with no place in an historical, secular debate.

Goo see 'Monty Python's Life of Brian' to learn something about the cult mentality.

It comes down to which side are you on?

The Age of Enlightenment or the Dark Ages.