The Ripper vs. Vlad Dracula

[JTRSickert]

One other historical killer that has always fascinated me is the story of Vlad Dracula and his inspiration for the Count of Bram Stoker's novel. In case some of you do not know, Vlad murdered his enemies by impaling them on spikes and left them to rot. He also nailed hats to their heads, tortured them, and was even rumored to dine in the presense of his dying enemies. The only story that relates to this Vlad drinking blood is a legend that he dipped his bread into a cup of his victims' blood and then ate it, but this story is more than likely apocryphal. I was just wondering, who do you think was a more brutal killer, Vlad or Jack? True, Vlad's victims number in the hundreds, but based on the brutalness of both killers, who do you think had the more atrocious killing method?

P.S. I recently discovered a book I forgot I had. It was buried in an old box in my garage. It is entitled Curtains of Blood by Robert Randisi. I won't go too much into the plot details, but it has Bram Stoker as the main character and tries to combine the story of the Ripper with that of Vlad, wherein Stoker sort of becomes an amateur detective on the case and, in the process, discovers the idea of Dracula. I forgot most of it, but I do remember I found the ending disappointing. Anyone else read this? If so, what are your impressions?

[belinda]

I love Dracula The book that is. Not so keen on old Vlad Tsepes. I think they were both equally vicious

Have you read Raymond McNally and Radu Florescus'books on Dracula?

[kensei]

Jack's victims died within a minute or so of being attacked. They did not hang impaled on stakes for hours in unimaginable agony. When it comes down to sheer brutality, it's hard not to call Vlad the winner. Not that Jack's methods weren't incredibly brutal as well, but he did not make his victims suffer to the extent Vlad did. I suppose that's because Jack was in a hurry and had to worry about his getaway, while Vlad's actions were publicly sanctioned and were done right out in the open. It's ironic that Vlad saw himself as administering justice. If he could have met the Ripper, he would have condemned him as a degenerate criminal and had him impaled on a stake.

By the way, I think Vlad only nailed someone's hat to their head once.

[JTRSickert]

I love Dracula The book that is. Not so keen on old Vlad Tsepes. I think they were both equally vicious

Have you read Raymond McNally and Radu Florescus'books on Dracula?

Hi Belinda.
I have the revised and updated edition of In Search Of Dracula.

Very, very good read. THanks though.

[JTRSickert]

Jack's victims died within a minute or so of being attacked. They did not hang impaled on stakes for hours in unimaginable agony. When it comes down to sheer brutality, it's hard not to call Vlad the winner. Not that Jack's methods weren't incredibly brutal as well, but he did not make his victims suffer to the extent Vlad did. I suppose that's because Jack was in a hurry and had to worry about his getaway, while Vlad's actions were publicly sanctioned and were done right out in the open. It's ironic that Vlad saw himself as administering justice. If he could have met the Ripper, he would have condemned him as a degenerate criminal and had him impaled on a stake.

By the way, I think Vlad only nailed someone's hat to their head once.

Kensei,

Regarding on how Vlad thought he was administering justice, it shouldbe noted that even today in Romania, Vlad is seen as a national hero, with many plaques and statues erected in his honor.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello JTSickert!

Well, if the British will consider Jack the Ripper as their national hero some day, I'd never visit them again!

Well, my impression is, that the Russians consider Ivan The Terrible as a hero too (The Russian members are most welcome to correct me, if this is not the case!)

All the best
Jukka

[Rick Mattix]

I read the McNally/Florescu book long ago but haven't seen the later editions. Am also a big fan of the fictional Dracula and have a couple of fairly recent annotated editions of Stoker's novel. I have little doubt but that Vlad the Impaler was the basis for the vampire count, with probably some inspiration coming also from Countess Bathory and possibly also the Ripper murders and fictional predecessors, i.e. Carmilla and Varney the Vampire.

On another note, while Vlad was no doubt a murderous, cruel, and vindictive tyrant, I have to wonder how many of the stories associated with him are true, how many are just oral folk tales, and how many are political propaganda circulated by his enemies? Was Vlad really a 15th Century Hitler or just a typical brutal medieval warlord whose vile deeds were greatly exaggerated?

I wonder how well documented Vlad's atrocities are. He had powerful enemies. The stories, with slight variation, come from different sources but that doesn't make them all true. Same question might be asked of other alleged medieval monsters like Bathory and Giles de Rais. Or even Sawney Beane, whose historicity I think is doubted by many.

Gruesomely fascinating stuff anyhow.