Meredith Kercher case

[Ally]

Just wondering how much coverage this is getting in Britain and what the general consensus is regarding Knox's guilt or innocence?

[caz]

Hi Ally,

Quite a bit of coverage here - just waiting for the verdict. I really feel for the poor Kerchers and it's personal because Carly was at school with Meredith and her sister. I used to see their father quite a lot as I walked to work in South Croydon. He would pass me going the other way and we'd just nod and say hello, as fellow Old Palace parents. I was in bed one morning when I heard the news on the radio and just went cold all over when I heard the familiar name of the student whose throat had been cut in Italy.

I don't think Knox's guilt or innocence has been much discussed in the media, they have just been reporting on progress. I would need to know more about the evidence, including the DNA findings, before giving a personal opinion, but it does seem that Knox has told several conflicting stories about the awful events of that night, which would be a silly thing to do if she wasn't involved and was just trying to protect her boyfriend. I believe she was responsible for identifying an innocent local bartender as the second man who was at Meredith's place that night, which allowed the one who was really there to flee the country. He was later found and convicted of Meredith's murder.

What do you think?

Love,

Caz
X

[Ally]

Hiya Caz,

I am somewhat torn. When I first heard about the case, I was pretty much convinced of her guilt based on some of the similar things you mentioned: conflicting stories, etc. When I read about the interrogation in which these conflicting stories came about however, I became less convinced of their value. If her defense is right, and she was told to think of any one that might be responsible, or to imagine a scenario that occurred in the house which led to her mentioning the bartender...I don't know. Without tapes of the actual interview which the police say don't exist, I am not sure what to believe. It would have been nice if they had recorded the interviews so we aren't relying on "she said" evidence. And again, if the alleged "murder weapon" does not in fact match the wounds, that leads one step farther away from proof of guilt, which may well open up reasonable doubt.

It is hard to find clear evidence over here one way or the other.

[caz]

Hi Ally,

Fair points. But short of Knox being forced to identify that particular bartender (who was completely innocent and was able to prove he had been working in his bar all the time), it's hard to explain why she did so. I'd be surprised if she ever genuinely thought he was the guy who went on to be convicted for his part in Meredith's murder. They are both black but I think that's where the similarity ended. I am presuming - but I may be wrong - that she must have been in the house that night and seen the man in question, or why would she have named another black guy that she knew from the local area? But didn't she at a later stage deny even being in the house with Meredith that night?

The body language between Knox and her creepy Italian boyfriend, when the cameras caught him comforting her in the wake of the grim discovery has always bothered me a great deal, but I can't quite put my finger on why. It was as if she was looking for reassurance from him that it was not 'all over' for them and everything would be fine, when all her concern should have been for what had just happened to Meredith, and who was the nutjob who did that to her.

Love,

Caz
X

[scarletpimpernel]

Just wondering how much coverage this is getting in Britain and what the general consensus is regarding Knox's guilt or innocence?

Hello. This case is not receiving as much attention here in the U.K. as much as the huge coverage that it is receiving in Italy, where the case is on the front pages nearly every day with centre spreads as well. I'm interested in this case, it is certainly a very weird case. Samantha Fox was laughing and joking with his boyfriend on the day she was arrested and she was doing splits and wheel-carts at the police station on that same day she was arrested as well. The Italian public are alarmed and shocked at this woman's behaviour where she showed no sadness or concern for her supposed friend.

The investigators found Foxe's DNA in Meredith Kercher's brassiere and a third black individual who was with Fox and her boyfriend during her murder has already confessed of murdering Meredith when the other two were trying to force Meredith to comply to be in an orgy. The black man has already been convicted. He said he didn't want to waste other people's time and money with a lenghty trial, so he is already serving his sentence. I think Fox and her boyfriend will also be convicted of the murder as well.

[Ally]

Caz,

Do you have a link to the video in question?

Samantha Fox was laughing and joking with his boyfriend on the day she was arrested and she was doing splits and wheel-carts at the police station on that same day she was arrested as well.

Amanda Knox. Not samantha fox. I am dubious about the splits and cartwheels in the police station.

The investigators found Foxe's DNA in Meredith Kercher's brassiere and a

No, they didn't. They supposedly found Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp. None of Knox's DNA was found anywhere in Kercher's room.

third black individual who was with Fox and her boyfriend during her murder has already confessed of murdering Meredith when the other two were trying to force Meredith to comply to be in an orgy. The black man has already been convicted. He said he didn't want to waste other people's time and money with a lenghty trial, so he is already serving his sentence. I think Fox and her boyfriend will also be convicted of the murder as well.

The black individual is named Guede and he was convicted by DNA evidence that proved he had sex with her the night she died. He has not to my knowledge at ALL implicated Knox or Sollecito but instead says that while he was in the bathroom some stranger came in and killed Kercher.

[scarletpimpernel]

Hello Ally

Knox used to call herself Knoxy-Foxy on her Facebook page, this is why I just called her Fox.

When interrogated, Knox initially said she was at home when the murder took place and she said she covered her ears as Mr. Lumumba killed Meredith Kercher, but then Mr. Lumumba was cleared after being detained for two weeks, so the Italian officers accused Knox of trying to protect someone. Asked by Mr. Lumumba's lawyer Carlo Pacelli why she had implicated his client ? Knox spoke falteringly as she alleged police coercion.

Prosecutors say that Knox's DNA was found on the handle of the murder weapon and that traces of Meredith Kercher's DNA were on the blade.

An Ivory Coast national Rudy Hermann Guede, who is now in prison for this murder was traced by detectives to Germany after finding finger prints on a pillow and toilet paper in Meredith Kercher's flat ( shared with Knox ) and these finger prints did not match any of the suspects in custody. Italian police traced Guede to Germany through a friend who established internet contact with him and chatted with him for hours. Guede, was detained on a train bound for nearby Frankfurt for travelling without a ticket.

Knox's parents, Curt Knox and his wife, are now being sued by the Italian officers for libel because they told the media that their daughter was being coerced by the Italian police. Mr. Lumumba is also suing Knox for libel because their daughter implicated him in this murder when he wasn't even there.

[caz]

Caz,

Do you have a link to the video in question?

Hi Ally,

It was on tv every time the case was mentioned on the news in the early days. You can see it here, about 30 seconds into the news bulletin:

http://itn.co.uk/tags/meredith_kercher.html

The couple are kissing affectionately and he is stroking her arm, in the immediate wake of the crime. It just looks a wee bit inappropriate and self indulgent, considering what had just happened to Meredith. If they are simply being open and honest in front of the cameras, then maybe they are just guilty of naïvety. And maybe I'm just a wee bit biased.

The verdict is just about to be considered, and it's estimated to be in sometime late this evening or early tomorrow morning.

May justice be done.

Love,

Caz
X

[Ally]

[QUOTE=scarletpimpernel;108655]Hello Ally

Knox used to call herself Knoxy-Foxy on her Facebook page, this is why I just called her Fox.

And I call myself Queen Mean but it doesn't make it my actual name or explain where "Samantha" came from.

Since the rest of your post appears like you are getting your knowledge of the case from Wikipedia instead of any actual studying for a long time, and you appear to be cherry picking facts out that suit you, I'll address one point and then move on because really I don't think you have a firm enough grasp on the case yourself to make it worth my while to discuss it with you. This is nothing specific against you but if you can't even get the defendant's names right, when my goal is for people to provide me with evidence I don't know and I appear to know more about the case than you..... it's just not what I am after in this thread.

Prosecutors say that Knox's DNA was found on the handle of the murder weapon and that traces of Meredith Kercher's DNA were on the blade.

And forensic experts called to testify say that the knife neither matches the wounds that were made on the body or the imprint of a knife in blood found on the sheets. So if it's not the murder weapon, what difference does it make whose DNA is where?


Caz,

I watched the video. I am ...uhm...well...confused. I don't really see anything awful in it at all. I see two young people, the girl upset and the boyfriend comforting her. I can't at all read anything into WHY she's upset but it doesn't scream "upset because we are going to get caught to me".

Of course I am not the biggest fan of trying to read guilt or innocence into post tragedy behavior, because no matter what, people are entirely too unique to do that well. Parents who weep and wail in front of the cameras turn out to have killed their kids and parents who remain stone-faced and cold (and therefore must be guilty) end up being completely exonerated. You cannot predict anything by how people react under stress.

My main problem with this is, with Guede having been convicted, his DNA found in the room, his having fled the country and his admitting to being there while she was killed but with a story of a "stranger" coming into the room to do it, why are the prosecutors still pursuing these two? There doesn't appear to be a single shred of physical evidence that supports a menage scenario. Especially since the prosecutors are now even changing the motive behind the murder mid-trial!

This is what made me start wondering if in fact it was an arrest prompted by hysteria and now they just cannot back down. And understand before I was as convinced of her guilt as I am now doubting it.

But whether she is guilty or innocent, I don't think there's enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt she did it, which either makes her innocent or very, very lucky.

[scarletpimpernel]

Ally, Caz

It really is very simple. Amanda Knox accused Lumumba a black man of being at the scene of the crime when he wasn't there, in fact he was at his club the whole time. The police corroborated his story from his mobile phone records plus witnesses at his club.

Guede, another black man has testified in court that Knox and Sollecito were there in the flat with him ( that is in court records now ) this is why the police still have the couple in the frame, Sollecito and Amanda Knox.

Basically, if anyone is telling the truth, they don't change their story. Having implicated Mr. Lumumba was a big lie. When in fact, it was another black person who was at the flat with them.

[Ally]

Guede, another black man has testified in court that Knox and Sollecito were there in the flat with him ( that is in court records now ) this is why the police still have the couple in the frame, Sollecito and Amanda Knox.

Basically, if anyone is telling the truth, they don't change their story.

Interesting. So when Knox changes her story, during a long question session where she claims she was hit by one of the officers (an officer who has a prior record of doing so) and was pressured to "imagine" what occurred or what happened, when she does this, this is clear evidence that she is guilty of murder.

But, when Guede changes his story AFTER he's convicted and suddenly starts cooperating and testifying against the other two while his case and sentence are on appeal (any possible motive there?) even though HE changed his story, it's clear that he must be believed.

Interesting double standard there.

[scarletpimpernel]

Ally,

One question here. How does Amanda Knox.. know that there is a blackman at the scene of the crime ? answer: because she was there.

Later she claimed later NOT to be at the scene at all, but at her ex-boyfriend's place.

Its simple logic, she contradicts herself at every turn.

[Ally]

You are joking right? Because you know that's hilarious. If she'd said a white man and the killer turned out to be white, would that be significant?

Or is it only with black men that it becomes of some significance? Maybe she has a prejudice against black people and therefore fingered one, which happens often, and in this case it turned out to be correct.

But the fact she mentioned a black man and a black man was convicted is of absolutely no statistical significance whatsoever.

[Garry Wroe]

Given your reservations concerning Knox's guilt, Ally, you might care to look up the case of Peter Falconio, a murder victim whose girlfriend, Joanne Lees, was subjected to some appalling treatment at the hands of the British media a few years ago.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Archaic]

Hi, Caz.

This is a very sad case in which a young woman lost her life.

I didn't realize that you and your daughter know Meredith's family. My condolences to you and to them.

Sincerely, Archaic