kennedy assassination

[Stephen Thomas]

Too busy making $$$'s out of his hookers, probably...until someone put him right.

Hi Graham

About what?

[Graham]

His duty to the cause, or something like that....otherwise, what was he doing in the basement that night, and how the hell did he get in?

Graham

[dougie]

Was Oswald a CIA operative, dougie?

There is nothing at all to suggest Oswald was a C.I.A operative....having said that even if he was,its doubtful it would be on record anyway.But looking at Oswalds character,he simply wasnt the kind of guy that any organisation of that nature would dream of employing....he was a complete oddball,unstable ,neurotic,unreliable,impulsive.Now some might say it was all an act,if so it was an act that lasted a lifetime.And if the cia employed him,they certainly didnt pay him
Funnily enough Ruby was a similar character,but he had another trait that oswald didnt..he had an explosive nature....he could be chatting amiabley one moment ,then launch a brutal physical attack merely because of a minor disagreement with the guy he had been chatting with seconds before.This apparently happened many times and for quite silly reasons.I think it was quite within the realms of possibility that he first wandered down rto the basement out of curiosity..saw oswald,exploded ,pulled out his gun and shot him, without any prior intention.That is the accepted reasoning,and its reasoning which,taking the elements of rubys character into consideration,seems very very plausible.
Now Ruby had dogs,dogs he doted on,he called them his babies,he was obsessed with them,many had noted it.Immediately before his shooting of oswald ,he parked alongside the police station,and left his dogs inside the car with ,i believe the windows open.Then went to the police basement and...bang!Now its hard to believe that those actions were the actions of a man who went to the basement with the pre-formed plan of assassinating Oswald.....on the contrary it fits the official version....as almost everything else does.The Warren commissions report was very well done,there are minor points it leaves unresolved,but nothing to undermine thier findings that Oswald acted alone,and Ruby likewise...in my opinion anyway
Im just interested Graham,why you feel oswald had help?would he really have needed it? and in what capacity?Unless we follow the path that the parkland doctors and most everybody else lied ,the facts seem to be that all the shots came from oswalds rifle and no other.If his partner (if he had one) was to help oswald in his getaway ,then one would have to say he was a slightly less than perfect accomplice Not saying its impossible,but its difficult to say exactly where any accomplice might fit in.
regards

[Graham]

Im just interested Graham,why you feel oswald had help?would he really have needed it? and in what capacity?Unless we follow the path that the parkland doctors and most everybody else lied ,the facts seem to be that all the shots came from oswalds rifle and no other.If his partner (if he had one) was to help oswald in his getaway ,then one would have to say he was a slightly less than perfect accomplice Not saying its impossible,but its difficult to say exactly where any accomplice might fit in#


I meant in terms of getting a job at the TSBD and, possibly, getting away from the scene. On the other hand, having been there, had I wished to bump off JFK in a motorcade, I'd have been on or behind the grassy knoll, no mistake...

Graham

[sdreid]

It's very hard to fit the attempted murder of General Edwin Walker by Oswald into the puzzle of any big conspiracy. I mean, why would the CIA, Mafia or whatever want to kill him? He was looked on as a joke mostly so why elevate him to martyr?

As I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if someone else like a friend, coworker or family member didn't know what Oswald was about to do and then did nothing to stop it. I don't know if you'd consider that a conspiracy or not. Someone could have even helped some but no major conspiracies as I see it.

I think Ruby was just a stupid man who acted on impulse but he's as responsible as anyone for the mystery or, maybe more correctly, the lack of a solution.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Stan!

Definitely so!

Had he been stopped, we would have no reason to debate here.

Whether there was on conspiracy or not...

To make it clear; I haven't made up my mind yet to either direction, despite being interested about the case for the whole of my life!

All the best
Jukka

[dougie]

Hi fellow kennedy assassination buffs
Id just like to run a few things through others minds,to see what they think,remember I wasnt there,so i dont know ..but these are just a few reasons why Ive come to the conclusion no conspiracy could have reasonabley existed.....Im leaving aside the physical evidence ,forensics,sightings etc.Its an opinion only based of course on findings by others, dates etc.
If Oswald conspired with anyone,the conspiracy couldnt have hatched in oswalds mind at least before october 1st at the very earliest.On that date Oswald was in Mexico city trying desperately to gain a visa and entry into Cuba.If he had succeeded then I dont believe anyone could reasonabley believe he would have ended up shooting kennedy.And is it reasonable to think that any "professional" i.e cia fbi mafia..plot ,with all its intricacies ,especially if part of that plot involved setting up an unwitting patsy as the fall guy be planned in 7 weeks.I think that takes some believing.The absurdity in the idea that Oswald was part of a convuluted conspiracy to kill kennedy is highlighted by the fact that on the very day sept 26 1963 that it was announced kennedy was visiting texas on nov 21 -22...Oswald was on a bus on its way to mexico city determined to get to cuba.
Following on from that since the motorcades route past the texas school book depository wasnt chosen until november 18th and wasnt made public until the next day the 19th...3 days before the assassination ,it appears to me that Oswalds getting employment at the book depository was un related to the assassination,or the planning of the assassination rather.So now ,to me, it appears that ANY conspiracy which involved Oswald either as the shooter,or for that matter as the "patsy" could only,at the earliest been planned and organised on the 19th of november,again a mere 3 days before said event....3 days to organise the biggest crime in american history,bribes to be paid,officials to be corrupted,police to be recruited,oswald to be set up perhaps, oswalds rifle to be pinched,oswalds pistol like wise and much much more...is that a sensible scenario to believe?Unless,of course one believes the ludicrous,in my opinion idea put forward by the conspiracy community that oswald was employed by who-ever to track kennedy down wherever he went in Dallas to shoot him.
The idea in some quarters persists that oswalds employment at the book depository is indeed a major part of the conspiracy.I.E Oswald was put in place there to carry out the job.But oswald began his job at the depository on october 16th,some considerable time before the motorcade route was known.But anyway if we disregard that..the nmain players in oswald getting a job there were Ruth Paine ,who phoned Roy truly,the superintendent to inquire after a job for oswald,Truly interviewed oswald and gave him the job.It stands to reason ,if the theorists are correct ,that paine and truly were part of the conspiracy? is that a reasonable assumption?
The characters of both Oswald and ruby would lead one to think neither would have been able to enter into such a conspiracy of any sort,far less one of this magnitude.
Marina Oswald quoted heres said "Lee was too secretive ever to have told anyone his plans,nor could he ever have acted in concert,accepted orders or obeyed any plan by anybody else.Lee had no use for the opinions of anybody but himself.He had only contempt for other people.He trusted no-one,he was so sick."
Many others including family members said similar things regarding ruby...so to me, it makes the conspiracy thing much less likely...all things added together I feel a conspiracy improbable to say the least.......but only an opinion as ive said.
regards

[sdreid]

I know it was after the fact but Oswald did tell Marina about his attempt on Walker's life so he wasn't 100% secretive.

[dougie]

Stan,
I could be wrong here,which would nt be unusual, but im pretty sure I read that Oswald admitted the walker attempted shooting only after prolonged questioning(nagging) by Marina, because she had suspected oswald of being involved and told him so.
regards

[sdreid]

Hi Dougie,

I heard somewhere that he left her a note when he went after Walker in case he didn't make it back but maybe that's just a rumor.

He was not a bad shot as has been stated having qualified as Sharpshooter in the Marines, the rating above Marksman. In the Stone movie, they say he got "Maggie's drawers" which only means that you missed the target entirely with one shot. That can happen to anyone occasionally and it often isn't even the shooters fault - a delayed ignition for instance. The term "Maggie's drawers" comes from when the man in the trench under the target would wave a white flag when the target was totally missed. Some guy thought they looked like women's underwear and gave it that name. If you hit the target they would hold up a ring on a pole so you could see where your bullet hit. Otherwise you couldn't see it at that distance with the naked eye.

[Roy Corduroy]

I heard somewhere that he left her a note when he went after Walker in case he didn't make it back but maybe that's just a rumor.

Not a rumor, Stan, a fact. The note was found and was a major point.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/walker.txt

Roy

[sdreid]

Thanks Roy,

Like I said, I'd heard it but hadn't checked up on it to know if it was for real. He doesn't specifically say that he's going after Walker but that's what we have. I guess Marina got it out of him.

[joelhall]

Hello Stan!

Definitely so!

Had he been stopped, we would have no reason to debate here.

Whether there was on conspiracy or not...

To make it clear; I haven't made up my mind yet to either direction, despite being interested about the case for the whole of my life!

All the best
Jukka

i have at the risk of getting everyone in a paddy...

i dont believe for a minute oswald shot kennedy in the head.

[Graham]

So who did? John Wayne?

Graham

[joelhall]

who knows?

all i do know is that that shot to the head didnt come from that rifle up in the book depository, regardless of whether he was involved or not.