JonBenet Ramsey Update

[Herlock Sholmes]

cmon pi keep the jfk stuff , and your feud with HS, out of this.

Well said Abby.

I know next to nothing about the Ramsay case. I read one book many years ago. It just seems unlikely to me that a family where the adults were successful, intelligent people, would have written a ransom note on paper that was easily found in the house.

PI’s input, as ever, is surplus to requirements.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

yes. hed be a prime suspect for an outside intruder suspect for sure. i saw an interview with his friend who said he told him he wanted to to see what is would be like to bash someones head in.

How would someone with no connection with the Ramsey family have known of the remote location in the basement in which to hide her and why would he have hidden her there?

And where is the similarity between his handwriting and that of the ransom note?

And it has been noted that the style of writing in the note is that of a woman.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

so all three were in in it? whats the motive? whats the sequence of events?

also, the parents let burke talk to the police alone. something they never would have done if he was involved at all or knew what happened. if it wasnt for that, i wouldnt rule him out for any of it, except the note. the police didnt think he had anything to do with it, and I dont think so either.

I think the sequence of events is that the two children were up and about and both eating pineapple while the parents were in bed; the girl's head was fractured; the girl either died or was mistakenly believed to have died; she was strangled in order to cover up the true cause of her death or supposed death; the ransom note was composed in order to cover up the fact that the whole thing was an inside job; the girl's body was then hidden in the basement in order to make the ransom note believable.

[Wickerman]

Many were suspicious, including myself, over Burke, that he had accidentally caused the death of his little sister and the mother (Patricia) fabricated evidence to throw suspicion on an intruder.
Yet, if there was any credence to the intruder story then Michael Helgoth seemed the most likely suspect.
I always thought the father (John) was both innocent & oblivious to the sequence of events, and his wife & son's role in the death of Jonbenet - assuming there was no intruder.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Many were suspicious, including myself, over Burke, that he had accidentally caused the death of his little sister and the mother (Patricia) fabricated evidence to throw suspicion on an intruder.
Yet, if there was any credence to the intruder story then Michael Helgoth seemed the most likely suspect.
I always thought the father (John) was both innocent & oblivious to the sequence of events, and his wife & son's role in the death of Jonbenet - assuming there was no intruder.

Are you assuming that the fracture caused the girl's death?

[Abby Normal]

Many were suspicious, including myself, over Burke, that he had accidentally caused the death of his little sister and the mother (Patricia) fabricated evidence to throw suspicion on an intruder.
Yet, if there was any credence to the intruder story then Michael Helgoth seemed the most likely suspect.
I always thought the father (John) was both innocent & oblivious to the sequence of events, and his wife & son's role in the death of Jonbenet - assuming there was no intruder.

hi wick
i was too initially suspicious of Burke. there was an incident a week or so earlier where he struck her on tje head with golf club. but then iheard they allowed him to talk alone to the police. They would never have done that if he was involved or if he knew anything.

[rjpalmer]

Many were suspicious, including myself, over Burke, that he had accidentally caused the death of his little sister and the mother (Patricia) fabricated evidence to throw suspicion on an intruder.

Here's a wild theory--maybe more suitable for an episode of Columbo than real life, but not impossible.

The mother finds the daughter and assumes Burke did it and writes the note as you suggest...

But Burke is innocent, and it was an intruder after all (!)

Crazy, but it could explain all the conflicting evidence.

Cue Peter Falk...

[rjpalmer]

How would someone with no connection with the Ramsey family have known of the remote location in the basement in which to hide her and why would he have hidden her there?

Those who favor the intruder theory claim the culprit came in through the basement to begin with, and then found his way upstairs.

It depends on who or what you believe, but supposedly one window had been broken sometime previously (by John Ramsey who claims he had locked himself out), and two others were left slightly cracked to allow extension cords outside for the Christmas lights.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Those who favor the intruder theory claim the culprit came in through the basement to begin with, and then found his way upstairs.

It depends on who or what you believe, but supposedly one window had been broken sometime previously (by John Ramsey who claims he had locked himself out), and two others were left slightly cracked to allow extension cords outside for the Christmas lights.

I thought the intruder theory has the intruder entering at ground level.

What are the chances of an intruder being able to enter the house, help himself to pineapple, fracture the girl's head, strangle her, borrow pen and paper (I think the paper was in the Ramsey couple's bedroom, but need to check), compose a ransom note, hide the body is the basement, and then leave, without any of the three surviving members of the family hearing anything or seeing anything?

[Abby Normal]

Here's a wild theory--maybe more suitable for an episode of Columbo than real life, but not impossible.

The mother finds the daughter and assumes Burke did it and writes the note as you suggest...

But Burke is innocent, and it was an intruder after all (!)

Crazy, but it could explain all the conflicting evidence.

Cue Peter Falk...

ive heard one that Patsy was having an affair and it was the guy, and or his friend who did it.
that would also explain alot of it. and not too far fetched.

[jason_c]

I'm almost certain as can be that it was an inside job. I have no firm opinion on which Ramsey killed JonBenet other than John is probably the least likely of the three. The DNA stuff is a sideshow.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Many were suspicious, including myself, over Burke, that he had accidentally caused the death of his little sister and the mother (Patricia) fabricated evidence to throw suspicion on an intruder.
Yet, if there was any credence to the intruder story then Michael Helgoth seemed the most likely suspect.
I always thought the father (John) was both innocent & oblivious to the sequence of events, and his wife & son's role in the death of Jonbenet - assuming there was no intruder.

If the girl was mistakenly believed to be dead (or even actually dead) and strangled in order to hide the true cause of her supposed death, then who is the most likely candidate?

[Pcdunn]

If the girl was mistakenly believed to be dead (or even actually dead) and strangled in order to hide the true cause of her supposed death, then who is the most likely candidate?

I would say John. I remember watching one of their first interviews on local TV news, very soon after the discovery of the body. Perhaps it was a sort of press conferance. In response to a reporter's question, Pasty opened her mouth as if to answer, but John tightened his grip on her hand and she either didn't reply or stopped in mid-sentence. He seemed controlling, somehow, not just supportive.

<shrug> ,,, But what do I know?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I would say John. I remember watching one of their first interviews on local TV news, very soon after the discovery of the body. Perhaps it was a sort of press conferance. In response to a reporter's question, Pasty opened her mouth as if to answer, but John tightened his grip on her hand and she either didn't reply or stopped in mid-sentence. He seemed controlling, somehow, not just supportive.

<shrug> ,,, But what do I know?

I would be interested to see that.

I did see an interview in which he described what he said was the most terrifying moment - the moment when they realised that their daughter had been kidnapped.

Is it really believable that he himself believed at the time he gave that interview that his daughter had been kidnapped?

He did not say that he had thought she had been kidnapped, but that he realised that she HAD been.

I do not know whether you have seen Cyril Wecht's lecture on the case, but I think his theory is quite wrong.

I don't think the father initiated the tragedy at all, but he must have been involved in it.

[Abby Normal]

I would be interested to see that.

I did see an interview in which he described what he said was the most terrifying moment - the moment when they realised that their daughter had been kidnapped.

Is it really believable that he himself believed at the time he gave that interview that his daughter had been kidnapped?

He did not say that he had thought she had been kidnapped, but that he realised that she HAD been.

I do not know whether you have seen Cyril Wecht's lecture on the case, but I think his theory is quite wrong.

I don't think the father initiated the tragedy at all, but he must have been involved in it.

their interviews are bizarre. they went to the tv stations literally days after, and before they talked to the police, she was murdered . and continued to do so and never shed a tear and talked about themselves being innocent tje whole time. ive seen hundreds of true crime shows with interviews of parents of murdered children and ive never seen anything like how the ramseys behaved. never.