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Most interesting unsolved non-serial killer cases

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  • Originally posted by louisa View Post
    Did they commit suicide whilst in prison? Hmmm...that's convenient.
    Hi Louisa,

    I don't know about the student or Baumeister, but Rev. Jim Jones killed himself after the assassination of Congressman Ryan in Guyana, and the "Jonestown" mass-poisoning suicide of his followers there. He never was in prison.

    Jeff

    Comment


    • Yep, Jones opted for the gun rather than poison.
      This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

      Stan Reid

      Comment


      • Baumeister killed himself, because the police were closing in, and he would probably have been arrested soon, but in addition, his business, which had previously been extremely successful, was failing (it was a string of second-hand stores, that dealt in everything from Goodwill-type bargains, to nice antiques; he was very successful through the 70s & 80s, and the failure was probably due to the internet). His marriage was in trouble, because his wife suspected he was gay, although she didn't know he was into having sex with teenage boys, then killing them. The fact is, that he liked being a family man, as much as that screwed other people. So, aside from being arrested, he was facing things that cause some people to commit suicide.

        The Jew-killing, Korean-killing spree, by a guy who had, a year before, been harassing Jewish students on his campus, and trying to recruit for a white supremacy group by leaving flyers on people's cars, to the point that the city started enforcing a long-standing, but never before enforced law that defines leaving flyers on cars as littering, and fines people who do so up to $500, ended by the guy shooting himself in the head to escape arrest.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by sdreid View Post
          Yes, I believe kidnapping is still a Federal capital crime so you can still be executed for it even if the entire event occurred in a state that does not have the death penalty.
          Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty but the Boston Bomber can still be executed for his crime.
          This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

          Stan Reid

          Comment


          • Originally posted by sdreid View Post
            Yes, I believe kidnapping is still a Federal capital crime so you can still be executed for it even if the entire event occurred in a state that does not have the death penalty.
            Kidnapping is a federal crime so that the FBI does not have to be invited to investigate, but may immediately assume jurisdiction. I think it is not, very specifically, a capital crime, because the last thing anyone wants is for kidnappers to kill their victims as a matter of course, because the punishment is the same whether the victim is recovered alive or dead.

            Originally posted by sdreid View Post
            Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty but the Boston Bomber can still be executed for his crime.
            Yes, he is certain to be tried in federal court. They'll have to find a federal crime to try him for, though, and murder is not a federal crime, unless it happens on federal property, or it the assassination of a federal official. I'm honestly not sure what specific charges someone who commits an act of terrorism can be charged with, and I think to prove a charge of "terrorism," there must be proof that the act was intended to influence the government in some way.

            Now, one federal crime that the bomber could be charged with is "depriving a person of his civil rights." I'm not entirely positive that applies in this case, though.

            At any rate, whatever the prosecutor does come up with, the fact that someone died will give his a felony murder charge to work with-- any time someone dies during the commission of a felony, that is de facto murder, and not "negligent homicide," or something.

            Comment


            • Hi Chaya,

              They are probably going to charge him with domestic terrorism to get him under federal jurisdiction and the death penalty. I really don't think they are going to allow him an easier trial under Massachusetts state law (i.e.: no death penalty).

              Jeff

              Comment


              • I'm sure you are right, but FWIW, double jeopardy doesn't apply to multi-jurisdictional charges, so if for some reason he isn't convicted in federal court, the conviction is overturned on appeal, or he gets less than a life sentence as a result, he can still be tried in Massachusetts for murder, a chrome which doesn't have a statute of limitations. That means that if, for example, he got sentenced to 40 years in federal prison, and with extra time credit for good behavior, got paroled after fifteen (not likely, but stay with me), the Boston DA could then request to try him for murder under state laws-- or might not even have to request it if he were paroled back to Massachusetts. There'd need to be a request only if he were living in another state after parole.

                Comment


                • Take it for what it's worth but the Wiki article about Federal Capital crimes lists "Causing death by using an explosive" as a USOA Federal crime that is punishable by execution.
                  This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                  Stan Reid

                  Comment


                  • The news the other day said there were several potential death penalty charges but they did not list them.
                    This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                    Stan Reid

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RivkahChaya View Post
                      The Jew-killing, Korean-killing spree, by a guy who had, a year before, been harassing Jewish students on his campus, and trying to recruit for a white supremacy group by leaving flyers on people's cars, to the point that the city started enforcing a long-standing, but never before enforced law that defines leaving flyers on cars as littering, and fines people who do so up to $500, ended by the guy shooting himself in the head to escape arrest.
                      I believe that would be Benjamin Nathaniel Smith who was in a local organization here headed by Matt Hale. The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies Hales group as a Neo-Nazi organization not that I hold SPLC in any great esteem.

                      Hale is in prison now for threatening the life of a judge but I used to wind up behind him at the post office when he was mailing out boxes of packets. I was also right behind him in line at the grocery store once where he was being checked out by a black female clerk to whom he was very polite. He received his law degree but was refused a law license here in Illinois due to his views before his conviction. At the time, I didn't agree with that action because views should not be taken into account no matter how abhorrent. At any rate, I always felt like I should say something to Hale to try to change his views but I know it wouldn't have done any good.
                      This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                      Stan Reid

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sdreid View Post
                        I believe that would be Benjamin Nathaniel Smith who was in a local organization here headed by Matt Hale.
                        Yeah. He changed his name to "August" Smith, because his given name was "too Jewish."

                        He started out leaving flyers on cars, and that got people to insist that the police start enforcing a local law against doing so (it constituted littering, and had been on the books for about 30 years).

                        However, later, some people were trying to get some local statutes against "hate speech" passed, and I ended up quietly disassociating myself from the group-- I'd been all over that "no windshield flyers"-- because honestly, people are allowed to hate us if they want to. I may not like it, nor understand it, but it is what it is, and frankly, if you don't let wacko beliefs come to the fore, they don't get examined.

                        Comment


                        • Yes, I agree
                          Last edited by sdreid; 08-13-2013, 11:13 PM.
                          This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                          Stan Reid

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rivkah View Post
                            Kidnapping is a federal crime so that the FBI does not have to be invited to investigate, but may immediately assume jurisdiction. I think it is not, very specifically, a capital crime, because the last thing anyone wants is for kidnappers to kill their victims as a matter of course, because the punishment is the same whether the victim is recovered alive or dead.
                            Although there are a few capital crimes on the books that do not have to involve a murder of any sort, no one in the United States has been executed for an offense that did not involve murder in almost half a century. The last was James Coburn who was executed for armed robbery in Alabama on September 4 of 1964. Armed robbery does imply a threat of murder however.
                            Last edited by sdreid; 08-22-2013, 11:55 AM.
                            This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                            Stan Reid

                            Comment


                            • I don't think the Potts Mystery has been mentioned. To my mind, this is one of the creepier unsolved cases. It's generally presumed to have been a kidnapping and murder, and the Cleveland homicide squad and the FBI investigated it as such, but really there's no evidence that a crime was even committed. Just a little girl who vanished in the midst of a crowd of people, not far from her home.

                              Cleveland, Ohio, has a longstanding tradition called the "Showagon". It's a travelling amateur variety show that operates from a stage built on the back of a truck. On a Friday night late in August of 1951, the Showagon had come to Halloran Park, on Cleveland's west side.

                              In 1951, people hadn't yet isolated themselves from one another under the influence of television, air conditioning and the automobile, and the Showagon drew quite a crowd, 1500 people or so, most of them walking a few blocks to Halloran Park to be together and watch amateur performers sing and dance. The park itself was unlighted, and the surrounding streets were said to be quite dark as well, with what light came from the few fixtures swallowed up by the old-growth shade trees. Still, people felt safe. It was their neighborhood, people were swarming on the sidewalks to and from the show, and people were sitting out on their porches. Windows were open to catch the breeze. Help was literally a cry away.

                              Ten year old Beverly Potts had gone with her neighbor and best friend, Patsy Swing, to see the free show. Patsy had to be home by 9:00, but Beverly had been given permission to stay until the show was over, about 9:30 or so. The park was at the end of their block, almost in sight of their houses. Patsy took her leave at around 8:45, leaving Beverly still watching the show. That was the last definite sighting of the girl. A school acquaintance, Fred Krause, believed that he briefly saw her walking home alone while leaving the park after the show was over, but he didn't speak to her, and so couldn't be sure it was her. She was never seen again.

                              What's so perplexing about this case is that no reasonable theory really fits the facts. She was leaving the park in the company of a large crowd of adults and children. Any disturbance would have drawn attention. There should have been no opportunity at all for anyone to snatch her by force. She was notoriously shy, and everyone who knew her agreed that she would not have allowed herself to be chatted up by a stranger. She had never shown any inclination toward running away, and had besides left her money, her clothes, and her favourite possessions at home. She lived only 2/3 of a block away from the park, so she'd not have gotten lost, even for a short time.

                              An intensive search of the area by police, boyscouts, and CAP revealed not a single clue. Manholes and sewers were searched, on the theory that she might have fallen through a loose cover in the street. Drainage ways were searched, all the way to Lake Erie, to see if anything had washed into them. The police even went house to house, and made an effort to interview everyone who had been at the show that night.

                              As always there were cranks and lunatics who falsely confessed, and even one villain who tried to extort 'ransom' money from the family (he was caught and punished). The FBI took up the case for a while. In the end, she had vanished while surrounded by a crowd of people, and that was that.
                              - Ginger

                              Comment


                              • Thanks Ginger - Yes, that case has been discussed over on Websleuths.com but not here, I don't believe
                                This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                                Stan Reid

                                Comment

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