Most interesting unsolved non-serial killer cases

[sdreid]

And also:

Fay Rawley (1953) Illinois
Janice May (1955) Illinois
Geneva Ellroy (1958) California
The Sunday Bomber (1960) New York
Karyn Kupcinut (1963) California
Pixie Grismore (1978) Indiana
Genette Tate (1978) England
Little Jane Doe (1983) Missouri
Tammy Zywicki (1992) Illinois
Dalton Mesarchik (2003) Illinois

[Graham]

Bloody hell, Stan! There's only about 2 of those cases I've even heard of! Are these all genuinely unsolved to this day?

In awe of your knowledge,

Graham

[sdreid]

Hi Graham,

Unless I've missed some news, they are all still unsolved.

[Dupplin Muir]

My take on some crimes

Hello all

If I may I'd like to add my tuppenceworth on some of the cases mentioned in this thread:

Suzy Lamplugh: I don't have much time for attempts to link this to murderers like Cannan or Wright. Since there is very little evidence that Lamplugh went anywhere near Shorrold's Road, and much evidence that she had no intention of going there, the 'Mr Kipper' note was just a pretext to get out of the office for an hour or so to meet someone. I think it is especially signficant that she didn't fill in a card for Kipper, even though this was SOP at the estate agents where she worked. My theory? She was seeing a married man (as several of her friends stated) and he decided that she was becoming a liability.

Lindbergh Kidnapping: Here I think we have to separate the kidnapping itself from the ransom demand. The case clearly leaked like a sieve, with information being passed to the press (and others) by the Lindberghs themselves, the police and the Lindberghs' servants, so I think the people demanding the ransom could probably get hold of enough information to make their demands plausible. I wouldn't be surprised if Hauptmann was involved in the plot to extract money from the Lindberghs, but I seriously doubt that he was part of the kidnapping.

Jill Dando: Barry George was clearly just a patsy, and I can't take the 'underworld gangster' or 'Serbian warlord' theories very seriously. If criminals were that concerned about TV presenters appealing for help in solving crimes, why didn't they do something about Shaw Taylor who presented 'Police 5' for so many years? No, I think this is another murder carried out by someone who knew Dando, and the motive one of the old favourites: sexual jealousy.

The Lucan case: I've only read two books on this case, and it is interesting that they both agree that Lucan could not have murdered Sandra Rivett, though one book ('Trail of Havoc' by Patrick Marnham) does suggest that Lucan hired a killer to do the deed. Many accounts of the crime seem to interpret the evidence on the assumption that Lucan was guilty, so that when Lucan called at his club it is assumed to be an attempt at providing an alibi. However, this misses the point: it can't be an alibi if Lucan had time to drive off and go and commit the murder. It would only be an alibi if it unequivocally ruled him out as a possibility. It certainly looks suspicious that he was at his club at the precise moment the crime was committed, but it depends on how often Lucan did this: if he regularly popped in, then perhaps it isn't so sinister.

Alfred Lowenstein: It seems impossible that it could have been an accident, and highly unlikely to have been a suicide, but if it was a murder then it means that everyone on the plane was either a murderer or an accessory (before or after the fact). I guess there were three or four killers and the others were silenced by a combination of threats and bribes. Incidentally I
wonder if Agatha Christie read about this case and used the idea in Murder on the Orient Express? The victim in the book, Mr Ratchet, was the culprit in a kidnapping clearly based on the Lindbergh case, so Christie certainly used elements of real-life crimes in her novels.

Just some thoughts

DM

[sdreid]

Thanks DM! I can see that most of your takes are good possible explanations but if Lucan was not involved then why did he run? And, if the ransom demanders and kidnappers in Lindbergh were unconnected then how did both have the same symbol and punch holes in their notes?

[Lord Lucan]

Hello all


The Lucan case: I've only read two books on this case, and it is interesting that they both agree that Lucan could not have murdered Sandra Rivett, though one book ('Trail of Havoc' by Patrick Marnham) does suggest that Lucan hired a killer to do the deed. Many accounts of the crime seem to interpret the evidence on the assumption that Lucan was guilty, so that when Lucan called at his club it is assumed to be an attempt at providing an alibi. However, this misses the point: it can't be an alibi if Lucan had time to drive off and go and commit the murder. It would only be an alibi if it unequivocally ruled him out as a possibility. It certainly looks suspicious that he was at his club at the precise moment the crime was committed, but it depends on how often Lucan did this: if he regularly popped in, then perhaps it isn't so sinister.


DM

Twas not me! I swear!

[wisfisher]

Villisca ax murders
Sad because 6 of the victims were children

http://www.villiscaiowa.com/index.html

[Graham]

Hi DM,

Lindbergh Kidnapping: Here I think we have to separate the kidnapping itself from the ransom demand. The case clearly leaked like a sieve, with information being passed to the press (and others) by the Lindberghs themselves, the police and the Lindberghs' servants, so I think the people demanding the ransom could probably get hold of enough information to make their demands plausible. I wouldn't be surprised if Hauptmann was involved in the plot to extract money from the Lindberghs, but I seriously doubt that he was part of the kidnapping.

Well, hmmm, yes. The case was obviously a ransom demand for the return of the baby, who was undoubtedly kidnapped, and who better to make the demands than the person or persons who abducted the child? Much of this complex case is now lost in the mists of time, but I believe that one Isidore Fish was the 'brains' behind the whole thing, backed up by Hauptmann and perhaps one or two others. Obviously nothing can now ever be proven, but I do feel the chances are that Hauptmann was personally responsible for taking the child, but that something went tragically wrong during this operation and the child was killed. The main reason for his conviction was the US gold bonds, which Lindbergh used to pay the ransom, being found at his house (if the police planted them there, then it's never been proven, and if they did, then why Hauptmann?) There is no doubt that Hauptmann used one of these bonds to buy gas. For me, the real mysteries of this case are:

1] why did Hauptmann get involved at all? He had a good job and was making good money, by all accounts. Also, he has a criminal record in his native Germany, which was naturally enough used against him by the police.

2] what was the part played by the weird oddball John Condon? Was he really acting purely for altruistic reasons?

3] why didn't Charles Lindbergh leave the investigation to the police?

4] why did Hauptmann maintain a total silence right up until the end? Was it because he knew that the only other person involved, Isidore Fish, was already dead, and he couldn't name any more names because there weren't any?

5] why did the Lindbergh's English nurse commit suicide shortly after the kidnapping? Was it because she was involved in a plot that fatally misfired?

There is obviously a hell of a lot more to this case than I can summarise in a few words...

IMHO this and the A6 Case are the two most mysterious and fascinating murder-cases of the 20th Century, neither of them perhaps unsolved, but fascinating nevertheless.

Cheers,

Graham

[sdreid]

Other questions for me regarding Lindy were:

Who was the person who, giving their name as J.J. Faulkner, turned in a large percentage of the ransom gold notes for (I believe) silver certificates?

What happened to the substantial portion of the ransom money that was never found?

[Graham]

Other questions for me regarding Lindy were:

Who was the person who, giving their name as J.J. Faulkner, turned in a large percentage of the ransom gold notes for (I believe) silver certificates?

What happened to the substantial portion of the ransom money that was never found?

Hi Stan,

Relying on (crap) memory here, but I think I recall that "J Faulkner" was actually traced as a Jane Faulkner who was married to a German called Glissner or similar and whose children by his previous marriage were known to John Condon. Maybe just coincidence, but strange. I think I also recall reading that it was possible Hauptmann had some kind of grudge against Jane Faulkner, and deliberately used her name when paying in the bonds in an attempt to frame her.

Also relying on (crap) memory, the US Treasury decreed that all gold certificates had to be exchanged for dollars by a certain date, subject to legal proceedings apparently. I believe that after that cut-off date (whenever it was) had passed, there were still untold millions of gold certificates that hadn't been exchanged, so maybe the 'ransom' certificates were just overlooked. Don't know, can't tell.

Someone also, I think, found out that Condon had underworld connections prior to the Lindbergh Case.

Cheers,

Graham

[Dupplin Muir]

Hi Graham

Why did Hauptmann maintain a total silence right up until the end? Was it because he knew that the only other person involved, Isidore Fisch, was already dead, and he couldn't name any more names because there weren't any?

Did Hauptmann really 'maintain a total silence right up until the end'? I understood that he vehemently protested his innocence right up until his execution, even after being offered a reprieve in exchange for a confession. If he was really guilty why not just say 'Oh, Fisch did it - I was just looking after the money for him'?

After Lindbergh announced that he was ready to negotiate with the kidnappers he received a host of ransom demands from people claiming to have the child, or to know where he was - iirc even Al Capone offered to get the baby back in exchange for his freedom. These demands can't all have been genuine, but it is possible that they were all bogus.

DM

[Graham]

Hi DM,

Yes, Hauptmann did protest his innocence (wouldn't you?) but he was also offered some kind of deal that if he named names he'd have escaped the death-sentence. New Jersey Governor Hoffmann believed that there'd been a mis-trial, and did his utmost to get Hauptmann to talk, without success.

I've just spent half an hour scanning the Lindbergh Kidnap Hoax website, which if not totally convincing does raise a few legitimate questions.

Can't honestly accept Kennedy's claim that Hauptmann was completely innocent. Too much evidence against him, but (like the A6 Case 25 years later) doubtless a lot of evidence never made it to the defence team. On balance, Hauptmann was involved, no doubt about it - but whether he killed the child personally and in cold blood, don't know.

There used to be a Lindbergh Thread on the old site, always worth a visit.

Cheers,

Graham

PS: haven't seen you on the A6 Thread much recently.

[Dupplin Muir]

Hello Stan

On the subject of Lucan, I think the point is that it is very unlikely that he personally committed the crime, though Marnham may well be correct in his hypothesis that he hired a hitman, so he would have been 'involved' in that sense. Once Lucan realised that the plan had gone terribly wrong and his wife had accused him of the crime and gone running out into the night, he could have decided either to commit suicide or disappear abroad.

The problem with the Lindbergh letters is that there are questions about the provenance of the letter found in the child's nursery: several people had searched the room looking for clues but had failed to spot the note despite the fact that (according to Lindbergh) it was in plain sight on the window-sill. In the book Crime of the Century: The Lindbergh Kidnapping Hoax by Gregory Ahlgren and Stephen Monier, the authors claim (with what justification I'm not sure) that both the nanny and Anne Morrow Lindbergh herself immediately suspected Charles Lindbergh of taking the child. Some might say that there are echoes of JonBenet Ramsey here!

DM

[Graham]

Hi DM,

The problem with the Lindbergh letters is that there are questions about the provenance of the letter found in the child's nursery: several people had searched the room looking for clues but had failed to spot the note despite the fact that (according to Lindbergh) it was in plain sight on the window-sill. In the book Crime of the Century: The Lindbergh Kidnapping Hoax by Gregory Ahlgren and Stephen Monier, the authors claim (with what justification I'm not sure) that both the nanny and Anne Morrow Lindbergh herself immediately suspected Charles Lindbergh of taking the child. Some might say that there are echoes of JonBenet Ramsey here!

Also, according to the LKH site, there were NO fingerprints whatsoever found in the bedroom, something I find incomprehensible.

There have been rumours almost ever since the crime that Lindbergh accidentally killed the child in rough play, and what happened subsequently was a massive cover-up to shift any sniff of blame away from an American hero. In any event, his star faded with his pronouncements on Hitler and Nazi-ism, which didn't go down too well.

Cheers,

Graham

[HollyDolly]

Most interesting unsolved non-serial killer cases

Thanks Stan. Actually I'll submit another list that this thread addresses.

1--Black Dahlia
2--Ax Murders of Villisca
3--Cabin 28
4--Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders (this may be solved soon, after 30 some years)
5--West Memphis Three (they may all soon be released)
6--Lizzie Borden
7--Murder of Frank Olson
8--Jon Benet Ramsey
9--Jenner, California Double-Murder
10--Jimmy Hoffa

I think Cabin 28 was the Keddie resort Murders in Keddie California.